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R1: Carlton v Port Adelaide (Post-match/pros & cons)

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Big Kahuna Boot

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:36 am

Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train

tap in 79 wrote:

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

Hornet wrote:

MIL wrote:

Kreuzer as a ruckman - forward eh Mick ?? Now we KNOW the game's passed him by. Oh dear.

All good ruckmen are also competent going forward

Problem is we don't have a good ruckman... Cameron Wood has these two pantsed... and that aint saying much

..you might be surprised by that, plenty of good rucks don't do much forward, our problem is we need them to be good up fwd cos we don't have a good forward combo to rely on weekly, and haven't for years now..

Hale 24 games - 20 goals 2013
Mike Pyke - 25 games - 28 goals 2013

Kreuzer -17 games - 8 goals 2013

Kreuzer comes over as a lovely guy...but this isn't the "lovely guy" business. This football team has been going for 150 years...I want it to be going for another 150 years at least. Unless we get harder and tougher as a team, we are going under.

..sure, but they ruc for the last two prem teams, with proper forward structures.. ..krooz doesn't, nor does he play as a resting ruck when forward like those two, instead he has to play as a kpf which changes everything.. ..krooz was poor in terms of goal kicking accuracy, and let himself down after putting in the hard work to get opportunity to score, but in our team I think he did well, cos our team is a shambles especially up forward.. his marking up fwd is up their with the best rucks, as was his goal assists.. ..he was under done last night and was scrappy, still had almost a many touches as some of the running types..

..but make no mistake he is a first ruck, and you won't get a good return trying to play him different..

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dannyboy

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:39 am

Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10399
Location: Coburg

drafting strategy and dont rely on pick 1s - smartest thing you've said for years.
I really do think Carlton thought we have 3 1's the rest should be easy.

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SnickerS

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:39 am

Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 1472

Synbad wrote:

SnickerS wrote:

Synbad wrote:

SnickerS wrote:

Dont even know where to start.
Apart from the laziness and mental weakness this list has so many holes in it its concerning.
WH really did a number on us. Even got our No1 picks wrong.

i dont think our early picks were wrong.... Murphy Kreuzer Kennedy and Gibbs are all solid footballers.
We got our drafting strategy wrong.... we have nothing from second third rounders.
Nothing.
We went for defenders when we needed midfielders.
We have too many holes because of this. A midfielder can play hbf or hff .. cant be said the other way.
We used to have an over abundance of hbfers.. most of whoch were culled.
Now we have an over abundance of one paced inside mids..
But the game is about the spread.

You need a couple.. you cant have ten.

we overcorrect too much in our drafting
We dont balance what we need.
We get a bunch of hbf... only 2 or 3 can play...
or a bunch of slow inside mids... good for stoppages.. not run
or a bunch of rucks ... were still struggling .. Capuano is a problem
or a bunch of talls all in the one hit... theyre all useless.. except hendo but we almost had bradshaw and rischetelli instead of henderson

But we dont take what we really need ....

Agree that Murphy Kreuzer Kennedy and Gibbs are all solid footballers.
But none are the best player in their draft. And with pick 1 you'd want that. Not just solid.

Maybe not every draft we had No 1 pick.. but at elast one. None are.

hathorn lost muston dowler and thorp.. and have won 2 premierships

drafting strategy and dont rely on pick 1s

we havent been addressing the crucial part of the ground and the way the game is played .. we have been taking the wrong types.
heavy one paced mids
hbfers theyre all gone .. more to go.. mciness and bootsma.. etc
had 4 rucks ,.. 2 gone.. still struggling.. cheap ruck coach
but no player that can spread and use the ball

how the hell do you play the modern game...???

I dont disagree with any of your points .... unfortunately.

Problem is...it's not an overnight fix. Its ANOTHER 6 year job.

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blues8182

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:43 am

Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton

Scotty12000 wrote:

22 players with offseason surgeries
Some of our best 22 still on the sidelines
Some of our best 22 out there horribly underdone
Trying to figure out the right mix given the above
Conditioning due to the above. Buttifant's not a miracle worker
Fittest team in the comp burnt us off in the last

What's to get? It's round one. I thought we might steal it in an arm wrestle but it was always gonna be 50/50. After the first quarter (which was fantastic and showed what the team can do when fit/fresh), I said we'd need at least a 4-5 goal 3 quarter time lead. Probably wasn't far off the mark. Port coming out full of run in the last is the worst kept secret ever, I'm really surprised that anyone's surprised we got rolled.

Some stuff to like, Ellard and Curnow particularly. I thought Jamo was great, far better than he's been in forever. Thomas was good, goalkicking aside - love his second efforts and his tenacity...I'm confident it will rub off on the others in time. Gibbs was good, Murphy far more contested than ever before. Lots of missing players - Garlett and Waite for most of the game, Yarran 7/10 on his lazy scale, Tuohy invisible, Robbo shocking and Walker absolutely diabolical. Menzel brought on too late to do anything, Bell okay. Simmo will always be the heart and soul of this team but we can't clone him.

Was screaming to switch Everitt/Hendo for ages - isn't that the luxury of having two swingmen? Watto harshly judged - no one could contain Westhoff at that time.

GWS beat Sydney by 32. Let that sink in. Are the Swans done? Perspective. I'll judge us at around Rd 8.

Hear Hear Scotty, it's not the end of the world, I would have preferred the win but we didn't get and that's it.

Robbo burnt young Watson with a shocking handball in the last and then didn't let him know he was hot, WTF was that all about, Robbo has more downside than up, I would prefer to Try Cripps and see how he goes.

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blues8182

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:47 am

Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton

bluegirl72 wrote:

cimm1979 wrote:

Scotty12000 wrote:

Good post Scotty.

Don't think Watson is being harshly judged. he would be ok as a fill in when needed. that's about it. McInness is also a problem. He looks lost out there, apart from a few good punch away move.
We are missing 2 or 3 elite players. They could tip the balance and make us contenders.
Even with Juddy an Carrots playing great, who do we have that can be freed to move into defence? Gibbs? ..It's almost like we haven't recruited well.
:lol:

note this is hysterical laughter. :wink:

Re: McInnes BG, where is White I would have much preferred him over McInnes last night.

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Big Kahuna Boot

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:47 am

Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train

..robbo himself isn't the problem, it's why we need one like him so much that is the problem which forces us to play him..

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blues8182

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:55 am

Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 394
Location: Melton

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

..robbo himself isn't the problem, it's why we need one like him so much that is the problem which forces us to play him..

Sadly that is true, we will not be a serious side until blokes like Robbo are fill ins at best.
We get the occasional great game out of him but more often than not mistakes and bad desicions, every time he touched the ball last night he screwed it up, but having said that he had a lot of mates.

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The Rhino

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:01 am

Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm
Posts: 6923

When the game was there to be won, Murphy was on the pine. Between that and his 2 give offs in front of goal, shocking captain's game.

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Big Kahuna Boot

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:11 am

Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train

The Rhino wrote:

When the game was there to be won, Murphy was on the pine. Between that and his 2 give offs in front of goal, shocking captain's game.

..looked to be getting work on his back?, the passing of the ball instead of kicking for goal is not good enough, and too many do it.. .not pleased that some of our mids do, but really irked that our fwds do it as well..

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AGRO

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:15 am

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24633
Location: Kaloyasena

Never seen so many players getting a massage/rub at 3/4 time. Ms Agro, said we were cooked and the last quarter was going to be ugly, she was right.

:cry:

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mjs

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:19 am

Garry Crane

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:37 am
Posts: 263
Location: Now back in Adelaide

Very disappointed with last night. If I was to use one word it would be
"inept"
Nowhere near enough contribution and impact on the game from a number of leaders. we seemed way underdone and not ready

Can someone please teach Kreuzer how to hold his position when going for a mark, rather than running under the ball. Warnock's rucking was ineffective, timing wrong and palming with the wrong hand to no-one in particular. No impact around the ground at all which is not good enough. I still think he should have gone in place of Hammer.

Didn't realise that Yarran was in the 21 until half way through the third quarter. Eight mins into the last was way too late to bring on Menzel.

Murphy had no real impact and did a couple of dumb things going into attack ... and he wasn't Robinson Crusoe in that respect.

Others tried bit had no impact .. Touhy, Simmo sort of, Bell, Everitt was in an mainly out, Waite tried for five mins, Hendo was no-where, Jamo similar

Honestly, you would think that there were some deep-seated organisational issues with that performance

Then to top the night off (after leaving slightly early), got dicked around by Metro with no direct trains from Sth Cross on the Belgrave/Lilydale line (other lines were also affected). A monument to another stuff up in AFL game scheduling and lack of coordination with public transport.

Don't want to write things off after one game, but we should have been ready to go. Mick can complain about getting run over in the last, but we could and should have sealed the game by half time.

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mikkey

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:20 am

Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm
Posts: 4129

Hope they play an intra match next weekend to improve match fitness.

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Big Kahuna Boot

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:23 am

Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train

..laziness more than fitness issue, physically and mentally lazy.. ..too few on field that 'get it'..

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cortez

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:34 am

Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 1170

What really bugs me about this loss, is that once again we dominated for periods of the game but wasted way too many chances. Our disposal skills are still way below elite level, does anyone else pray that Robbo will handball rather than kick when he has the ball? Those floating mongrel punts...

Kruse is by all reports a lovely bloke who gives his all every time he's on the park, but he looks cooked. Once he was great below his knees, he was mobile, he was almost a 200cm midfielder, I suspect injuries have cruelled him. He's not a forward, they need to stop trying to make him one. Drop Warnock, we can't afford the luxury of a ruckman who can't take a mark, who hardly gains a posession and who is as slow as treacle. Bolt as KPF in place of Kruse, otherwise go with a fast, mobile forward line at his feet (it's not as though we have much choice). Also more defensive pressure from the mid fielders (nothing new there).

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Dominator_7

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:45 am

Geoff Southby

Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 5338
Location: Melbourne

The Rhino wrote:

When the game was there to be won, Murphy was on the pine. Between that and his 2 give offs in front of goal, shocking captain's game.

Was saying the same thing with some other Blues supporters on the train after the game.
There was a stage in the 3rd term where as a Captain, he had the perfect chance to go back and go bang with the proverbial 'Captains Goal' to put us 2 goals up. But what did he do ? Dish it off and shirk the responsibility.
It hurts to say, but you cant imagine Hodge, Selwood, Jono Brown or even Jabba Watson wouldn't ve done that.

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Dominator_7

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:47 am

Geoff Southby

Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 5338
Location: Melbourne

The lkast quarter fade out has been a constant pattern through out the Pre Season and continued last night. Cause for concerns ?

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Synbad

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:04 am

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Tackle count was a continuation of the swans final.
Which is what i have been saying we should be looking at and not the tigers game,

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bluegirl72

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:20 am

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 23921

blues8182 wrote:

bluegirl72 wrote:

cimm1979 wrote:

Scotty12000 wrote:

Good post Scotty.

note this is hysterical laughter. :wink:

Re: McInnes BG, where is White I would have much preferred him over McInnes last night.

Comedy gold!!! new career in standup for you. :wink:

(nah, you might be right there..dunno.)
Look. it's an amazing achievement to even make a Northern Blues team. it's no disgrace to be B players for the A team. yes, White might be better, but while we are shuffling these players, we are not a serious contender for the top 6 or maybe even the 8.
We simply need a couple more elite players. If we are seriously going for a crack in the next couple of years, then we must try and get both Mundy and Frawly, as well as securing Gibbs.
if not, then we buy up big on highly talented kids.

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Stone Free

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:25 am

Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:40 am
Posts: 4088
Location: Reclining always

We need to string more of those first quarters together. We were looking good up to that point, but trying to maintain that intensity is obviously a flaw we need to address.

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Effes

Post subject: Re: R1: Pros and Cons/Post match discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:26 am

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19393
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au

Synbad wrote:

SnickerS wrote:

Synbad wrote:

SnickerS wrote:

Dont even know where to start.
Apart from the laziness and mental weakness this list has so many holes in it its concerning.
WH really did a number on us. Even got our No1 picks wrong.

Port certainly have loaded up on mids with their early picks...only one which isn't a mid is Butcher

Boak
Wines
Wingard
Hartlett

Ebert and Polec were trades but they were earlyish initially as well.

McInnes and Bootsma...we then add Everitt to that.

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