I not sure that just because that has been written, it actually makes it true.


Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

You don't rate him Cazz?

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Umm... Obviously a different one than you. I'm not sure how having judd on the list has anything to do with list cloggers like Watson, McArthy, Mitchell, I could go on but look at Psych's list above, there isn't a name on there who shouldn't be.

Our mid round drafting has been diabolical, we gave up far too much for Brock and the jury is out on Lucas. How far back do you want to go? The Grigg/Hampson disaster? What a terrible return on 17 & 18.

Never mind the fact that we totally dropped the ball on free agency/list management and put ourselves in a recruiting/trading straight jacket right when smart clubs recognised the need for flexibility. And we did all this right when we decided we needed a new coach and gave him no chance to bring in anyone he might have targeted to help him.

So yeah I'm not sure how Judd had been the puppeteer pulling all of these strings. Maybe i haven't given him enough credit. All I've seen is a great player walk into a mess of a group with no leadership and at least provide a model via example. And I will never forget some of the great moments he delivered, e.g. The 3rd quarter of the final in Sydney, the win in Sydney on Friday night a couple of years ago, and of course the look on Eddies face when Juddy won the brownlow. I wouldn't trade that (and Armfield) for Kennedy, Palmer and whatever spud Hughes would have stuffed up #20 with.

Vardy wont be going anywhere.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Can you list the average players and spuds who were picked after pick 16?

Don't be a hindsight hero and point to the better players.

The players we really missed out on were Josh Kennedy and Tom Hawkins who were picked under the F/S rule.

It wasn't a super draft like many predicted.

But we didnt know that anyway.. and we wont know what is the outcome when we do it again will we on that logic???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

That's a reasonable point Kouta. Not wanting to turn this into the 34549th thread on Hughes' recruiting record, but Grigg and Hampson fit the Hughes mould of not taking 'football' players. He seemed to love picking players based on a specific physical trait, rather than basics like, does he have a brain, can he kick, mark and handball, that sort of thing.

Anyway, none of this gets away from the point that having Judd on the list had nothing to do with these picks and the seeming reluctance to move them on quickly once it becomes obvious (to everyone outside of our club it seems) that these players aren't going to be players in a premiership contending team.

Pretty hard to ignore something that was 3 years away from happening.

The Ablett compensation is clearly a different set of circumstances. If Geelong had traded him on the open market they'd have got much much more than 2 first round picks.

Remember how Nick Stevens ended up at Carlton and not Collingwood? Thats a much more relevant example than the Ablett scenario.

Wasnt aware the Judd camp were valuing trades. I think what West Coast wanted is a little more relevant.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Nah Judd is in control of everything

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..not sure if you quoted by mistake, but my thoughts on handshakes are about brock..

..but anyways, regarding krooz.. -- ..he seems over the knee injuries, i can't remember there being any talk of them being degenerative.. ..in fact, this year all season he hasnt had any strapping on them at all.. ..last season he reinjured them, and we played him for most of the season thru it.. ..thats bad club player management, not a knock on him.. ..if a club ruins a player, its hardly the player's fault.. ..ratts tried to save his career, and could have stuffed krooz up.. ..crazy thinking from club level..

..yes, cotchin is a good player.. ..would i, in todays time reverse the draft and pick him over krooz?, no.. ..some may scoff, but i'd still take krooz.. ..your ruckman is an integral part of the team, more important than 1 individual midfielder.. ..they contest the very first action, they set the standard and attitude.. ..a physical ruck is a big part of every prem team..

..top class mids are available every year, flag worthy rucks are not.. ..cotchin is good, but he's no judd/ablett.. ..and i reckon if you asked cotchin, he'd love to rove to krooz every week.. ..the acl set back krooz's development by at least 2 yrs.. ..on top of which. mids will develop quicker than talls anyway..

..it's interesting to note how many supporters under-rate Krooz, and yet ex-players can't talk highly enough of him..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

..must be you, i reckon she's getting better every year.. ..she's a bit of an amazon, she can wear the wonder woman costume any time she likes..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

i dont even see kruze as a ruckman only i see him as a top shelf big man.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

..ditto.. ..he's top shelf, i agree.. ..and as many would say, you go the good big man before the good small man..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

i reckon the only thing kreuze misses is a good leap.

he has everything else.. hes ahead of most big guys in most other cataguories.

not a big jumper though.. but very good at ground level.. and the marking will come.
it started to come on the weekend... he wills himself

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..his jump is ok.. ..yes it's not a big leap like nicnat or hampson, but not many are.. ..but he's average for a ruck.. ..last year his ability to jump was hampered, this year he's been jumping well in marking contests and also center bounces.. ..it's more about timing, which he's getting back.. ..marked well vs port, starting to mark the ball at the highest point like he used to do pre-acl..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

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#DonTheStash

Theory at the start of the year was 2 out of 3 of Walker, Kreuzer and Robinson.

Walker's form and versatility makes him hard to dislodge. Don't think they'd have the guts to trade Kreuzer whilst he's still playing halfway decent footy.

I expect them to panic and trade Hampson for next to nothing with less than 24 hrs to go in trade week, reminiscent of the Jacobs trade, and instead of picking up a speculative, young ruck in the rookie draft, we'll pick a 30 year old 191cm VFL journeyman....or Orren Stephenson at his third club in three years.......nine years after we decided he wasn't good enough for the Pagan era.

The draft, no matter how good it's first 20-30 may be, is never going to be deep enough to accomodate 12-14 list changes, and we're going to need to take a gamble on some speculatives from other clubs being better than the speculative status quo. Wouldn't mind a look at Tapscott. Wonder what Brisbane would want for Polec. I'm sure we'll hear another year of rumours of recruiting Lachie Hansen..

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

He wasn't a huge jumper before his knee injury and definitely lost a bit of spring after it and with the other leg injuries he had during his rehab and on his return - saw glimpses of his former leap coming back to him in the NAB Cup - but not quite there yet.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

The day WC's haul started to go past the CFC haul was always going to come

But in saying that, we do need to remember Armfield is becoming a little ripper of a player for us

Look Judd's value was two-fold ...

- members, sponsors, just gave us belief, optimism, energy
- his professionalism no doubt rubbed off on teammates, and arguably also impacted on our ability to recruit eg: 206

That concludes "Trading for Dummies 101".

Anything else you want explained?