I reckon JohnM is on the money. The push is coming from the AFL.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

As long as Scotland's penalty is not harsher than the penalty that Essendon* gave the cab basher I dont care.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Perhaps we should ask ourselves, 'What would the Sydney Swans do?'

I'm really not sure if I'm joking or not.

Of course, if we'd gotten BJ, our butts would be covered. He'd have made a perfect stand in with an absent Scotty.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

The club is right that there are a few months until the next season, but it's not as if they haven't already had time to determine a penalty.

These days it's about community perception and the club's brand, both from membership and sponsor perspectives.

To not have a number of scenarios already prepared for use, subject to the court's finding, smacks of amateurism.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

What the AFL and the general public need to understand is with Scotland it is a cutural / tribal thing. Whacking pissed blokes in pubs is a traditional thing that goes back centuries with the Scotlands . They just need to let the Scotland tribe decide the penalty as we will never understand their culture and way of life

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

You would think the leadership would have a fair say in relation to the penalty handed out.

The players are on holidays and from what I can gather they are overseas right now.

Should they come back for this Jack? Yes or No

I asked that very question in the Cultures and Values thread Bluegirl.

I'm astounded at the response on here. Have we learned nothing? On the one hand, everyone cries and laments that we don't have the culture that Sydney has, or Geelong has, that we lack the leadership to be a Premiership team. But then when something happens that demands strong leadership, that gives the Club the opportunity to begin to change its culture, to establish standards and levels of behaviour that will not be compromised, suddenly everyone is gun shy, suddenly it's the AFL driving the media to put pressure on us.

It's actually really simple. Scotland went out and king hit someone. He is a repeat offender. He put himself in a situation where he got into trouble. If our Club is going to demand uncompromised behaviour and performance from its players (and staff), then this cannot be tolerated. The Club should be strong, firm, and quick in its behaviour. It should drive the punishment, not be fighting the AFL to get Scotland a lighter penalty. Three weeks, four weeks, season proper. Make everyone at the Club understand in no uncertain terms that this is unacceptable behaviour. Make Scotland feel like not only has he behaved unacceptably, embarrassed himself etc, but that he has let down his teammates. his coaches, his Club and the supporters. And then, he won't do it again. Did we learn nothing from Fevola?

That is what Sydney and Geelong would do.

And that is how you go about changing the culture of a football club, and developing strong leadership.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

The cynical are saying that we are waiting for the AFL draw before deciding.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

The only thing which is more horrendous than Scotland's situation is Caroline Wilson using any opportunity to write a(nother) rubbish article about Carlton.

Richmond players can turn up to training on drugs and that's okay, but a Carlton player involving handcuffs or legal action and AFL must fine them $900,000 and strip them of all draft choices according to Wilson.

FWIW - Scotland should miss some (maybe 2) regular season weeks, and donate a sizeable sum to victims of violence.

If this was any other guy other than an AFL footballer, nobody would ever hear anything about it, ever. The convicted parties were find a few hundred dollars each. Clearly not even serious by magistrate's standards.

What about he girl he whacked? He has form on his side regarding the hitting. He should be rubbed out for games in the season proper not the NAB.

Wrong choice of words on my part, in retrospect

Still doesn't change the fact (there's that word again ) that the unwashed flower out there won't bother listening to the full story (whatever it may be) and will want him hanged because of the jersey he wears regardless.

That said

How about we actually take the lead on this and set the standard, rather than allowing the AFL to overrule and embarass us? What better chance for our (IMO spineless to this point) Leadership Group to actually set a new level of discipline and and professionalism, and show the AFL world we're no longer a reactive/insular club still trying to do things "The Carlton way" and sweep things under the rug hoping for the best?

Why not, instead of trying to get a dinky suspension past the AFL in the hope they won't step in and make us look stupid, we actually go beyond what they would do, impose a stronger penalty than even they would bring in, and leave them saying "Geez, Carlton have certainly got their shit together, let's leave them alone"?

Despite whatever extenuating circumstances exist in this case, Heath has history, violent history that has gotten us in the paper for the wrong reasons more than once, and perhaps (especially as one of our older players who should be setting the example) he needs to made an example of to the rest of the playing group that being a part of this club is a priviligie, and that anything less than total professionalism on and off the field will not be tolerated. Will it hurt us on the field? Of course it will. Will this cause Heath's teammates to lose respect for him and/or tell him to get his shit together? No doubt. Will other (younger) teammates see what happens and think "Geez, I don't want that happening to me", and perhaps work a bit harder or drop whatever bad habits they may have? You'd hope so.

I'm sick of seeing Carlton cutting corners and trying to find quick-fixes/compromises to gain success. Take some responsibility, take some initiative, set high standards, and just maybe success will come organically.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

flower.
Give him 3 weeks.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Club need to take a stand - serial offender -like him as a player but sullied clubs reputation 3 games sounds about right BV

He will surely miss anything from 2 to 4 games in the season proper?
That's fine, but it's a shame it will now look as though we only did this under pressure from the AFL, and to some extent, the media.
Why did we not act decisively straight away?
There is just so much cause for concern with the club. We want to earn back respect from the AFL world according to Juddy. Would have thought that should apply to all levels.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Apologies there Siegfried. Excellent post, and I came to that thread late.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

this sums up what happened, 3 weeks at least

http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/387487/heath-went-back-for-his-shoes/

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

..rules limit fines to 5k, and it's widely reported we're going to just suspend him for nab games.. ..yeah we'll fine and suspend him, sounds tough.. ..but then you remember max fine is just 5k, and club is aiming to only have him miss pre-season games.. ..it's weak, especially on a supposed senior player that has priors in this regard..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Siegfried stole my thunder

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

..that's pretty weak i reckon.. ..why should we measure ourselves up against another club's "standards", especially in a case where many of us believe they were nowhere near strong enough..

..the very fact that the courts take into account he's a footballer, and the club is going to impose their own penalty [which is bollocks btw] which helps said footballer in the court hearing. ..this all means that you ought to be extra severe in club imposed penalties, not looking for leniency.. ..and not using another clubs weak decision as our standard..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Whilst not wanting to devalidate what he's apparently done, I think it's worth pointing out that the worth of a week during the season to a footballer doesn't necessarily carry universal value here.

Missing a game (especially early in the year) as a 32 year old, possibly in his last year carries a lot more weight than it would for a Dustin Martin in the peak of physical fitness.

A smaller penalty may seem like poor leadership, but may also take into consideration how long he may take to get back into the pace of senior level, small nagging soft tissue injuries that came to the fore last year, etc.

Easy to point to the lengthy Stevie J/Stokes suspensions given their respective age, at 32 it will be difficult to justify having Scotto doing nothing/playing in the 2s, get back in around round 6, take a couple more weeks to get back into form, potentially at the expense of a younger player. Hypothetically - Kane Lucas comes in and takes over his role and does it bloody well. Why drop him for a player with maybe 14 weeks to go in his career?

Unless I've overestimated what Carlton see his role to be this year, and he's considered a Tarkyn Lockyer-esque back up, I don't think a lengthy stint on the sidelines is beneficial for anyone. Might as well sack him if that were the case.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?