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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8206
bluegirl72 wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Top 4 will be a tough ask if we drop this one


TBH..hard to see how we can get in, even if we do win.
I mean, it would be amazing, but I think it's probably healthier to downgrade that expectation at this point.
Personally, I'm going back to my pre season wish of winning 2 finals.
Key to getting top 4 in such an even season is to get a real decent run of wins.

Now, if it were just that easy.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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SurreyBlue wrote:
I don't think we will win big or easily but we will win this one. Why, we like playing in Adelaide, we are a better than Port and because we'll lock it down like we did against Melbourne and play good contested footy until we win the ball on our terms and realise the runners. Port won't be able to go 4 quarters with us. It will all start for us next week though. Big few weeks coming up after this game.

As for the 3 rucks. It works people - all we need is for Krooze to play more of a CHF role in demanding the ball and getting the team to play through him more. The guy is athletic enough to play the role well, all we need to do is either teach him (hopefully we have done something here) or he learns to be more assertive, because he can take a grab!


Can't agree the with the latter. Wish it was that easy. Looks ok against Melbourne, probably look like crap against West Coast. Certainly Kreuzer, or Hampson for that fact, are no KP players per se. More to it than being tall and athletic enough otherwise any top ruckman could do it. Ok rucking and resting forward, as Hampson does well, creating mismatches but as actual permanent KP forwards will get killed by genuine KP defenders and run off easily, as Ratten alluded to as a problem at 3/4 time on Sunday. We don't want to be trying to teach blokes that now, that's takes alot of time and probably won't work anyway, we want those who can play the position. We'll get more out of Kreuzer as a ruck rover at stoppages and crashing packs at contests and floating forward in that role creating a mismatch.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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jim wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Top 4 will be a tough ask if we drop this one


TBH..hard to see how we can get in, even if we do win.
I mean, it would be amazing, but I think it's probably healthier to downgrade that expectation at this point.
Personally, I'm going back to my pre season wish of winning 2 finals.
Key to getting top 4 in such an even season is to get a real decent run of wins.

Now, if it were just that easy.


yeah. because it starts being about other teams falling over as well.
It's hard to see W.coast, Adelaide, with their dream run, Collingwood, who got over their slump,and unfortunately Bombers, coughing up games like we have.
Still, it could happen, in conjunction with us consistently winning. Always hopeful. :smile:

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25192
Location: Bondi Beach
bluegirl72 wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
yeah. because it starts being about other teams falling over as well.
It's hard to see W.coast, Adelaide, with their dream run, Collingwood, who got over their slump,and unfortunately Bombers, coughing up games like we have.
Still, it could happen, in conjunction with us consistently winning. Always hopeful. :smile:


We have the opportunity to get one game closer or pass some the teams above us.
We still play Collingwood, Essendon*, WCE and whilst we don't get a chance at Crows again, Adelaide still have the abovementioned to face too.

Plus we can get further clear of the Hawks, Tigers, Cats, Saints and Sydney who want our spot!

It is a very close season, like nothing we've ever seen.
Plenty of time for us to get into the top 4.

Upsets will happen again for Pies, and Crows, us, and Bumbers should run out of steam and hopefully luck.
There will be upsets. Count on them. Even for the Wegirls.

We have had a lot of bad luck starting in the preseason.
Despite the high alt training at Qatar, injury does hinder plans..
That's not the way to start a season. But that's nother thread.

Our players must fight back to peak condition at the right time of the year.
We have the fitness base.
I believe we can regain our status as the best hard ball and clearance team in the comp.
When we do that again, and we show patience in the arm wrestle and game opens a little...,
... then we can use the outside after burners to get the quick goals..

We can do it. We have to be disciplined and patient. Step up on field leaders.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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bondiblue wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
yeah. because it starts being about other teams falling over as well.
It's hard to see W.coast, Adelaide, with their dream run, Collingwood, who got over their slump,and unfortunately Bombers, coughing up games like we have.
Still, it could happen, in conjunction with us consistently winning. Always hopeful. :smile:


We have the opportunity to get one game closer or pass some the teams above us.
We still play Collingwood, Essendon*, WCE and whilst we don't get a chance at Crows again, Adelaide still have the abovementioned to face too.

Plus we can get further clear of the Hawks, Tigers, Cats, Saints and Sydney who want our spot!

It is a very close season, like nothing we've ever seen.
Plenty of time for us to get into the top 4.

Upsets will happen again for Pies, and Crows, us, and Bumbers should run out of steam and hopefully luck.
There will be upsets. Count on them. Even for the Wegirls.

We have had a lot of bad luck starting in the preseason.
Despite the high alt training at Qatar, injury does hinder plans..
That's not the way to start a season. But that's nother thread.

Our players must fight back to peak condition at the right time of the year.
We have the fitness base.
I believe we can regain our status as the best hard ball and clearance team in the comp.
When we do that again, and we show patience in the arm wrestle and game opens a little...,
... then we can use the outside after burners to get the quick goals..

We can do it. We have to be disciplined and patient. Step up on field leaders.


Ta BB.
I feel better now.
:gift: :beer: :smile:

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:52 am
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MOnday nights shows

AFL 360
[youtube]5HKHT-cHxRQ[/youtube]


On the Couch
[youtube]T5gkIo4p5HA[/youtube]

Footy Classified
[youtube]xd06ohk--Ys[/youtube]

Not much to write home about really.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18024
ThePsychologist wrote:
IMO This is a must win for our season.

How I would like to see us set up.

B: Armfield Jamison Bootsma
HB: Gibbs Bower Lucas Scotland

C: Simpson McLean Collins Ellard
Foll: Warnock Robinson Touhy

HF: Walker Judd
F: Betts Kruezer

Int: Hampson Garlett Curnow Sub: AJ



We'll continue to get smashed if we go in like that. Until we actually develop someone to play the 7th defenders role properly, we're at a disadvantage straight away. Gibbs is a good distributor from defence but you want your loose to intercept mark and Gibbs doesnt do it enough. He can out body a player one on one but he rarely impacts as the 3rd man in.
Meanwhile, the opposition 7th defender impacts twice as much.
The game is reverting to man on man when the ball is in a contested phase. That should be our focus at the moment until we regain some form and confidence.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:04 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Blue Vain wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
IMO This is a must win for our season.

How I would like to see us set up.

B: Armfield Jamison Bootsma
HB: Gibbs Bower Lucas Scotland

C: Simpson McLean Collins Ellard
Foll: Warnock Robinson Touhy

HF: Walker Judd
F: Betts Kruezer

Int: Hampson Garlett Curnow Sub: AJ



We'll continue to get smashed if we go in like that. Until we actually develop someone to play the 7th defenders role properly, we're at a disadvantage straight away. Gibbs is a good distributor from defence but you want your loose to intercept mark and Gibbs doesnt do it enough. He can out body a player one on one but he rarely impacts as the 3rd man in.
Meanwhile, the opposition 7th defender impacts twice as much.

Playing a 4 man forwardline is a recipe for disaster unless the opposition reciprocate and play a 4 man defence. Buggar all chance of that happening. The game is reverting to man on man when the ball is in a contested phase. That should be our focus at the moment until we regain some form and confidence.


I agree in a way. I want Gibbs to play on man in the backline like Laidler would. Playing him as a plus 1 does have its advantages but i think it bores him a bit and like you said he doesnt go third man up too often (although we havent really needed him to if you look at the stats for marks against in defensive 50).
I am looking forward to seeing Yaz and Gibbs both playing out of the back half together like the first 3 rounds. Gibbs was very good in those games and Yaz was not too bad either.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10576
redback wrote:
Hammertime22 wrote:
i want us in a pre lim

thats been my expectation since we lost to the eagles last year


I want us to win the cup.
There ain't no second prize.


:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
So big Kev you would play a collection of average list cloggers instead of Lucas who has upside and might develop into Simpson type? Interesting how collingwood played two rookies on the weekend


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:23 am 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:49 am
Posts: 765
Don't thnk Lucas is the hard ball get type of player unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:40 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:07 pm
Posts: 1984
According to the Hun today Yarran is hopeful to play, but Waite and Hendo are no chance.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:43 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..doesn't look like any of our more certain starters will be back for this game.. ..yaz is a ?, waites back isn't responding to treatment and hendo's corte shot to the hip hasnt taken as well as hoped.. ..collins has escaped big damage to the knee but bruising should still see him out for a few weeks..

..if we continue with 3 rucks, hard to see thorny in cos thats yet another 'tall', or another such as watto for example.. ..personally i like 2 talls at either end, any more than that can 'unbalance' our height/run ratio.. ..not sure how army is, was it really a pre-planned substitution, or was he a little sore..

..so, considering this, we will possibly go in pretty much like last week, lucas starting on the ground this time i reckon cos you'd not wanna use he as sub back to back i would assume..

..port are seriously poor in their ruck division, and their mids are more cold than hot [far worse than us].. ..they will crack in, until you crack in harder for longer and then they'll crumble..

..this will be far more about team cohesion and effort, vs personnel..

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:30 am 
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Rod Ashman
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The Melbourne win wasn't great, that's fine. But some things went right that day. A smashing in the clearances, and a far better contested effort.

What was terrible was the disposal at times and the forward line is a broken mess. Really that's what kept the game tight, that we just have a forward structure that does not seem to be functioning.

So you have to take the 4 points, and use the positives to build on for the next week. The message to the group would be that the contested effort and the improvement in stoppage work is good. That must remain. The next step is to keep it in the forward 50 when it isn't being marked.

Our biggest problem defensively appears to be scores against from rebounds. Pressing up and the opposition going long over the top to two or three running players. A lot of teams have opened us up that way in the last 6 weeks.

It's a worry that Henderson is still sidelined... is the suggestion of some possible groin related injury true?


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Having a ruckman who taps the ball to advantage is a massive plus from the Melbourne game. I think people underestimate how important Warnock is to our side - he is head and shoulders (for want of a better phrase) our number 1 ruck and the reason we did so well in the clearances.

I know that Melbourne were poor, but the fact we kicked about 1.9 during a phase through the second and third quarters kept the score respectable for most of the game.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
Match Committee should be short job this week

Is Collins ok - Nope
Yarran- Needs another week

Ok who is then Kerr or Russell

Every other player is injured

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Match Committee should be short job this week

Is Collins ok - Nope
Yarran- Needs another week


Not according to the presser today!

Truth or smoke and mirrors?


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:07 pm
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Match Committee should be short job this week

Is Collins ok - Nope
Yarran- Needs another week

Ok who is then Kerr or Russell

Every other player is injured


Well yes and no. Is there still a Thornton v Bower contemplation for the MC?

Is Watson ever going to get a taste again any time soon? Would seem more plausible against a Port rather than a Geel, WC, Hawthorn or Coll...

Are we clear on Duigan's injury status?

Maybe a long shot, but Buckley as the sub? Bootsma was thrown to the wolves in a sense with an early debut, is it entirely unrealistic that the club might follow the same path re Dylan?

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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based on rattens press conference it will be in yarran and out probably lucas?


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Michael Jezz wrote:
So big Kev you would play a collection of average list cloggers instead of Lucas who has upside and might develop into Simpson type? Interesting how collingwood played two rookies on the weekend


Errr ... no, not really. I just don't think that you could typify Carlton as a club that favours grunt players over skill and speed.

As for Lucas, I was big fan up until he did his hamstring. He's definitely worth persisting with, but based on his performance at AFL and VFL level this year I think he's getting about the right amount of game time, (except maybe been a sub too often).

So MJ ... we've got a collection of list cloggers do we? Go on .. name names! :smile:


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