..far too early to judge ratts.. ..he's blooded alot of young players, numerous injuries, with a few players out for half a season or more, underdone players battling thru injury on-field..

..i understand that there seems to be some basics which are missing, but it's too early to tell if these are coach or player problems..

..if he wins another 4 games this year we can call the season a success, and then i guess he's entitled for another year as he's already contracted for.. ..after that, who knows.. ..will depend on whether we reach finals next year.. ..which i guess is the common expectation..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

We need an outsider to come in and shake the club up. Someone who is going to clean out the dead wood, boot off the passengers.

To get a well respected Paul Roos, John Worsfold or Mark Williams is exactly what this club needs. These guys know who they rate on our list and have no connection with any of the playing group and can make the hard calls.

In my eyes it i can't help feel that all is not well on the playing field. It's as if some of the players look as if they are doubting either themselves, the game plan or the coach.

i cant out my finger on exactly what it is but something just don't seem right when they take the field.

The coach v the cattle arguement is a little spurious in my view. At the business end of the season, it's always two very good sides playing. That's when the tactical nous of the coach can be the difference between winning and losing.

IMO Ratts hasn't necessarly done anything wrong, but that's not necessarily a good reason to keep him if a better option becomes available.

Surely Malhouse must be bored at Collingwood by now. He'd be a better get than Worsfold IMO.

Hawthorn were questioning whether Clarkson was the right choice in Year 1.

Worsfold took a few years to get WCE in top 4.

Eade was close to be shown the door last year.

Sheedy lost 5 of his first 6 games as coach.

Pagan was a proven gun coach when we hired him in 2002.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

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17 4 10

An outsider like Pagan? He booted off a few passengers in '03.

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17 4 10

Typical coutnerargument and probably the crux of this whole debate-
but for our situation as we sit here right now, Id pick the blue chip, proven 'development' coach over an untried one any day.

It may be typical, but it is important. Once bitten, twice shy.

Right here, right now Ratten has been appointed coach and needs to be assessed over a 2 year period (and you can forget about including last year in the assessment... good or bad). The typical counter-argument can also go all the way back to Barassi's appt in '65. It's a risk reward decision and if Swann and Pratt made the decision on experience and feel then I'm comfortable with that... I'd trust their judgement over posters on this site.

I think Ratten has done OK to this point. And it's not just the head coch we should we talking about here but the cocahing team. From where I sit we have more system than last year... and at the very least Ratts has been a uniting force around the club. I am of the firm belief Ratten's appointment will prove to be an inspired choice and he will develop into a very fine coach. And inspired choices are only proven in hindsight.

I also do believe that Ratten needs to move on some players who provide poor leadership and choose when they want to put their bodies in.

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17 4 10

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,,20388802-19774,00.html

Interesting article about the tactics employed by Woosha back in 2006.

I wonder if icing the clock, might have been a better option, than the tactic that he used here. Although he ended up winning the Granny that year, it might have been a different story if this was the Preliminary Final and not the Qualifying Final.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Pagan was a disaster from the very first day. He was on the outer at the Kangaroos way before he left and if you speak to people at North they will tell you how happy there were to see the back of him march out the door. They haven't looked back

If i lined up Paul Roos, John Worsfold, Mark Williams and Brett Ratten and asked you to choose one to coach your team who would you choose

Mark Williams will be coaching my side.

Today it would be Paul Roos from that line up.

Who would you have chosen in 2002? (ex Ratten).

Diarise to ask me that question again at the end of next year.

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17 4 10

Isn't Pagan now back at North? Who are these sources? Find it a bit of stretch.

This is getting beyond a joke now

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

discussions took place in perth R7

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

The Kangaroos players had enough of Dennis and had run his race as coach. Unfortunately for us someone at our club decided to sign him up as a political stunt.

Your mail is always pretty good grro. Any details on how that went?

not much in it - planted the seed so to speak - thats why i think the OP actually just stumbled into this one - more of a guess on his part i reckon

long way to go yet

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

No Josh, no Woosh.

Woosha did go to WVE after they had recruited a plethora of hidden gems playing amongst adults in the WAFL. He and hos off fielfd team developed them.

Having Cox, Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Fletcher and Braun in the midfield helped him win a premiership. What's the chance he wouldn't have won that with one of the midfielders missing, say Judd?

It's all guess work in this thread. Who @#$%&! knows whose better? Who knows what results each coach will bring? What should have Ratts done better this year? Proof?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Gee give Ratts some time to prove himself. Its going to take him time to be able to "out coach" the likes of Craig, Eade etc..

He is still learning. If you think Clarkson, Woosha etc didn't do some hard yards when they first started, think again. They both had some rough moments.

We are making our own history here. Don't forget that its not just the head coach involved. He has his assistants and managers etc. Its about getting the right team together and working with the same goals in mind.

If anyone attended training during Pagans reign, it was groundhog day for the first 4 years. No scope for the development of decision making, no game sense, just do as your told.

Since Ratten has taken over, the training sessions and particularly the drills have become game sense based and focus on developing the instincts and decision making of the players. At last we have leapt into the present and people are getting jittery.
Unfortunately, its going to take time. The players are learning to make their own decisions. They are learning alternative game styles and structures. Its going to take time.
There will be moments of confusion in games. There will be times when players make poor decisions but give me that over Pagans time every day of the week.

I remember this same conversation a couple of years ago when Synbad and a couple of others were rightly saying how good Hawthorns short term future was going to be. Hawthorn and Clarkson were copping the same grief from their supporters and the media about overpossessing and going nowhere at times on the ground; But the seeds of success were being sown in their development.
The fact is you have to experiment in games sometimes. You need to develop several gamestyles to give you flexibility and the ability to counter the opposition. They're not all pretty and they wont all work when you try them but bad luck.
We are a "developing" team. I'll take that everyday.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.