But Synbad we were never even close to a Priority Pick that year! We won 10 games for heaven's sake, it's not like we missed the PP by one game like we could still do this season. We'd passed the PP threshold by halfway through the season. Also, very few people at the time were upset with those 10 wins. In fact, most people were ecstatic and who are you or anyone to tell them that they shouldn't have been thrilled with 10 wins, something which at the time appeared real progress when you consider we'd won 7 games over the previous two seasons. It's very easy in hindsight eh?

I also love the way people refer to the round 22 game against Collingwood at the MCG. The implication is that that match itself set us back! Laughable! So it cost us a spot in the draft, we got pick 9 instead of pick 8 or whatever. I bet everyone was sitting at the MCG that night praying that we'd lose that match .

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Yeah but we won those games on the back of some astute planning ... with the recycled players etc.
We beat a Collingwood thats outstripped us going forward because they were playing Dane Swann and we were playing Teague.

In the meantime youve changed your nick from BluesBack 2003 BB 2004
BB2005.. and its become too tiring for you to update it anymore.

We needed a pp that year.. to dip into a Franklin or a Deledio ... instead of a Russell. now i dont mind having Russell... but with a later pick perhaps... we needed a very early pick that year.
The lack of foresight cost us!...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?!

I could go back and trawl through TBV archives Synbad and find posts by 99% of posters (including you) who were thrilled with season 2004 as it was unfolding AT THE TIME.

We did need a PP that year but then I could argue that we need one basically every year and so does every other club as this is theoretically (and usually in practice) where the best talent is taken in the draft.

As an aside you would also know that there were doubts over Lance Franklin before he was drafted as well.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

But foresight is a whole lot better.


Those who dont study history are condemned to repeat it.

1939, 1940 and 1941 were really a shitty time for the "The Allies" - a glorious retreat at Dunkirk - a bit of pride swallowing, a lot of forward planning then a push in 1944 to win the war (kind of mirrors our 1938 to 1945 flag gap).

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Yes, but only with HINDSIGHT can we lament the fact that we didn't show more FORESIGHT.

All I'm saying AGRO is that in 2004 very few people complained that we won 10 games. After we won the Wizard Cup in 2005 on the back of the 10-win season in 2004 many supporters had genuine cause for optimism. Of course there was a minority which were more guarded but the majority could hardly be blamed for being optimistic.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

I remember in the lat 90s going to a Coll-Carl game with my scum-supporting girlfriend (now my wife) and it just happened to be the game after Perter Daicos had retired and he ran out with his kid and did the lap of honour etc .....and then Collingwood proceeded to tear us apart in tribute to one of their greats.

I am just sick to my stomach that we are incapable and ill-advised to repay that favour on behalf of Kouta this Saturday.

It will probably be over a decade or more before we get another opportunity to say goodbye to a champion Carlton premiership player with a mauling of a traditional foe.

Quite depressing when you think of it like that, really.

I hope we replace Kouta with Kreuzer and Morton.

Trading Fev for a ruckman/midfielder/defender and drafting a player like Palmer/Selwood would be a very smart move if foresight is so important.

If he does'nt?

Thats a mighty big if right there.

Players, a club, a team, a coach should never tank even IF it MIGHT bring some joy in the future.

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1. Walker,
2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.

Maybe giving the club Kouta played for with such distinction a better chance to climb out of the cellar with an extra top 10 pick?

If this game meant so much to him, he'd have dragged his body to the trenches one more time. Point is, he probably wasn't given the option. Ratts wanted to promote Jamo so Kouta had to go. That's footy. That's business.
So is the PP. Make no mistake. Swan was the architect of the Collingwood tank. He knows how to do it and he sees what it delivers.
This team looks good on paper but is too young to win but Jamo will play his first game in front of 60-70,000. He'll get a lot out of it, win or lose, as will Grigg (2 games), Bower (if he plays) or Austin (if HE plays). An honourable loss is what the club needs.
We don't need to win to send off Kouta. He will get his send-off before the game and a good one it will be.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Speaking of history... can you remind me again how many times West Coast has needed to tank and gain a PP to win a premiership and finish in the finals every year for the last 16 (except for 2)?

oh and here's a thought, if our list is that bad and the ONLY way for us to EVER regain long term success is to obtain ONE more high draft pick, why not just trade Fev for it? Surely Fev won't be around for our next premiership team anyway. There's more than one way to skin a cat. It's called list managment.

For the record, I'm hoping for a win this weekend, as long as we are playing the kids. Wins in 2004 were meaningless for our future because we were playing a futureless team full of recycled hacks. Our 2007 team is full of young guns where every win goes towards building a successful team. But if we do lose, and the silver lining is the PP, I'll be happy to take. It is what it is.

Like I said, as long as they continue to play the right players I'll be happy. So if Saddo gets dropped for Austin and Bannister for Edwards, even better. At this stage of the year, with finals out of the equation, we need to be testing each player to see where he's at. Look at the positive results we achieved from putting Jackson through his pacers and Eddie in the middle. But if it results in a win by doing so, lets also take it and be happy about it.

Getting this priority pick is not about gauranteeing a future premiership, it is about providing a base of skill in the side upon which a potential premiership side can be built around.

You need a foundation before you can build a house.

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I agree with you. The only difference is there is more than one way to get the talent. PP just ups your chances with minimal work, but its not the "be all and end all" like some make out. Other teams have proven that. I'll take it if it comes, but I also think that Carlton can be successful with out it. We just have to start making the right decisions with selection, trading, drafting, list mgt, etc. Adding Pratt and his $$, stealing Swan and getting rid of Pagan will go a long way to improving things.

Speaking of West Coast can you remind us when they ever ran their list down as much as we have?
Why do you think 2 sets of circumstances can be the same as each other?
And all this from the guy that thought Kouta had plenty of footy in him... and the big body we need...

Out Kouta Lance Whitnall
In Kreuzer Cotchin or Palmer or Morton or Ebert....

Thats how things go.....

Youll probably ask me if WC have drafted Kreuzer before and if they havent why should we???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Look in your eyes we still needed Kouta.... but we dont need Murphy Gibbs and Kreuzer....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yes, there is more than one way.

But this is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity. The group of young skilled players we do have will most likely have enough experience under their belts to move up the ladder regardless.

Adding another murphy or gibbs for free is a massive boost in an era where stars a more difficult to import than ever before.

Just putting on an economists hat, the benefits of the PP at this stage outweigh the negatives of five more losses. I hope it happens because I think the club will be better off. But if it doesn't I will not scream blue murder, premierships will still be possible of course, just a bit more difficult to achieve.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Yeah but we dont need elite young talent... we need
1) Talk Kouta. into staying
2) Do what Swans or West Coast did.. (draft exactly their players and hope everybody else drafts exactly what they drafted and have history unfold in exactly the same way and we will a premiership.... for sure.!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yup, I agree that we are almost to the point of the season where the benefits of the PP outweigh the benefits of victories. So if the PP comes our way, then so be it. It will make our rise up the ladder 2-5% easier. But we'll need a lot more than just the PP. It is at the end of the day, just one individual. Josh Fraser. Michael Gardiner and Jeff White haven't guaranteed or lead their respective clubs to premierships. Where as a D Cox (Rookie) has. I guess the people that want the victories from here on out are happy to take the harder route to sustained success.

btw, it's good to see a level headed discussion on the topic rather than the way that the trolls like to go about it - cheap shots and illogical & irrelevant comments that don't actually respond to anyone else's arguments.

Wernt you rubbed out 2 weeks straight from in here???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

can't wait for that Melbourne game - do we put 19 men on the ground and call for a head count?

or do we ask play Fev at fullback and Lance in the ruck?

Play Saddo as a loose man in defense...oh hang on....

I know instruct our blokes to kick to to them and after the game claim a jumper clash.

Tell Melbourne they can have Ratts as coach if they win this game?

Fly to the ground via Madagascar?

ahh what about the team does a full on marathon the day before?

ideas?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

If we cant win a premiership with three number 1 draft picks, and a number 2, 3 and 4 draf pick in our side they may as well take us out the back and shoot us.