If it was just the Pagan payout figure it wouldn't be a problem . ITs the 1.5mill interest free loan from the AFL which is the sticking point .

Sack Pagan loose the funding they have been told

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

And doesn't DP know it.

He's like the shitty employee who won tattslotto on the weeked - he's in a no lose situation and is going to do and say exactly what he wants regardless of the ramifications.

That's why they need to be selfless and let some fresh faces with money to burn join the board and help make things happen. Swallow one's pride, bring in some dough and tell the AFL to fuk7$ off.

Maybe this will happen tomorrow (Friday)

plus: think what ADP wrote above should be POW - absolutely spot on!

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I support Carlton, Fulham and I'm an accountant - my mate calls me a 3 time loser.

cloke's character is not much better than zantucks

punch up in pubs
reckless driving
attitude issues

Not sure I totally agree with all that. Zantuck may have stuffed up in the past and this needs to be seriously taken into consideration, but I would argue he has more runs on the board in terms of form as a football player than Cloke has thus far. Pagan knows the risk in taking players like Gardiner and Zantuck, but I think he's just after the best talent available, and Gardnier and Zantuck's best are better than Ackland and Cloke's best. There mightn't be a huge difference, but Gardiner was a gun at one stage and Zantuck did boot 6 goals once, better than anything Cloke has ever done surely. Pagan was right with Pike, and there's plenty of other like cases in the history of the game where bad boys have done well. So it's a bit rich to 100% dismiss Zantuck (or Gardiner for that matter) as recruits, because on the flipside Ackland and Cloke will probably never produce genuine highs. I mean are we happy with that?

Look it's easy to argue it both ways. One the one hand it makes little sense to me to have a head coach who gets overruled everytime he wants an experienced player recruited (first Gardiner now Zantuck). I agree the head coach shouldn't have the final say all the time and there needs to be MC involvement, but it does seem Pagan is being overruled a hell of a lot lately, which stinks of politics if you ask me. Surely the head coach should be given as much power as possible, within reason. And yet on the other hand I can see the merit in arguing that the board should have the final say if they think recruiting a certain player could cause genuine harm to the club. I do agree with Tyrants comment that the club need to find a better system for doing what they do, cause right now they look like a bumbling mess from the outside. Everything seems to be out of kilter right now.

A ha, yes, hadn't thought of that. Anyone advocating Cloke over Zantuck based on personality traits is seriously contradicting themselves. Cloke almost cost Collingwood their TAC sponsorship. That's a big muck-up in anybodies book.

We're sponsored by Dan Murphy's though, so if the incident was alcohol related then it's all OK.

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

Good one George!

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Oh the irony

I don't think that's right. He's a professional coach who's got a job to do and is constantly hampered by a @#$%&! wit president telling him how to suck eggs. I'd be frustrated, too.

Yes, he's in a no-lose position so is anyone who has agreed to a contract, good luck to him. We should never have signed him to 3 more years when we did, but that's part of life we have to deal with.

If this IS his tactic and he succeed s in pissing smorgan off, good luck to him. I just hope it comes quick and Mitchell doesn't end up coaching us.

It seems there is just a total lack of cohesive structure between the Board and the football dept. that will harm the club each and every day this farcical situation continues.

The two wrongs (The board, Pagan) are slowly strangling this club.

Both Pagan & the board need to be shown the door for continually harming OUR club.

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There's so much I could say...

Wayne Hughes comments on...

Taking Cloke - "I think probably after the national draft, when we couldn't come to terms with Chris Bryan's requirements contract wise, it basically re-changed our focus and we thought we needed to have more support for our ruckmen, so we watched and did our homework on those that were available and came up with Cameron."

Zantuck - "Just with losing Chris after the national draft...it left us short in relation to our ruck depth."

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

Listening to Pagan speak to KB on SEN about Zantuck not being recruited I got the distinct impression that he was plaaying politics with it all - as ADP et al suggests.

He is exeperienced enough to know what is divisive aand what isn't in footy clubs and he played one of his card in his call.

I've no doubt he knows exactly where he is positioned and he knows exactly what he is doing working the media to support his position.

Arguing about the merits of Zantuck as footy player misses the point of what this is about. Zantuck merely precipitated the opportunity for Pagan to play a nice little political wedge shot.

and it really demonstrated the hopeless situation this club is currently in with both Pagan and Smorgon and others.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

The Board and Club is divided. We all knew that and there is no news in it.

Likewise, there is no news in overall the Blues finding that Zantuck is:

* would have been a 3 club player
* is too short to play in any key role (look at the list - edwards, russell and carrazzo are his height or taller - the guy is a shortie)
* has had question marks from the past
* is in his mid 20's

and therefore most likely to have been a crap pick-up. I know The Tyrant likes Zantuck but his only good games were up forward as a 5th or 6th forawrd. He is a dud kick and one of those players best described as 'good when he is 30 metres in the clear'.

We should all be happy someone or many people overruled yet another stupid idea.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

What's done is done.....no Cloke and daggers.

You get 0/10 for the following ...try and be consistent and you might eventually get the credibility and attention you are craving...

The signing of Pagan was a bad move. As I have said right from the start, Wallace or Eade would have been as good in regard to discipline but furthermore have demonstrated they have superior game plans than the long kicking nonsense we are being forced to watch now.

The fact that the club has re-signed pagan shows they are bereft of ideas and are hoping like hell that he lifts the team back up the ladder. Problem is, he doesn't have the players, the recruiters aren't drafting readymade players of quality and best of all, his game plan stinks. He will be sacked at the end of 2006, mark my words.

The true oracle of football
Has been, is, and always will be the greatest
Carlton God
AKA Footy Expert

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Ladies and Gents, first post - but not before time.

I see it like this:

1. DP wants out (if not, putting on a sure good imitation), but wants a payout and maintain his pride too. He's only human.

2. Board is incompetent and dysfunctional and is in the process of burying our brand - this all against a background of so much elite talent coming into the club which, together with so much existing young talent, WILL lead to genuine improvement in our on-field fortunes from 2007 onwards. At best, Smorgon would be a passable board member but lacks the charisma, media savvy and passion (e.g. Eddie, Cuz David etc) to be the President of our famous club.

In my opinion, the board needs to be cleaned out - pronto. Not all out though, Greg Lee and Sticks to stay on. Lee is passionate and has proven marketing savvy - a pity he's copped this board to work with first up. Sure, Sticks has his problems but let's be realistic - the mainstream member does not give it much of a think and will want him on the board for the "warm and fuzzy" feeling it brings.

BUT, for god's sake, relieve him from MC and other footy operational duties - a ridiculous conflict that is not tolerated at any other club (oh for the days that WE were the comp trendsetters).

Once we have a new board, I'm sure Denis will be dealt with appropriately - he'll still end up with a mountain of cash and the ability to sleep at night, regardless if he is moved on or otherwise. No coaching expert, so I can't call if he's a positive or negative for this club. At least, though, he has well respected and competent assistants, which is a hell of a step forward from past years.

I get back to this point - the board of our club has to be changed. My palms sweat at the thought of what our current and potential sponsors think of all this, let alone members. If this keeps up until, say, March of 2007, we'll be in a DEEPER financial hole, with the AFL well and truly in control and keeping us on life support (if they aren't doing that now).

What sponsors or membership prospect would want to be involved with this club at the minute? Anyone noticed what club their children's friends are barracking for? Tragically, have just "lost" my 7 yr old niece to C'Wood - who could blame her! A new board will hopefully mean new money and hope. We all dream of the "white knight" without Smorgon as President. Who's going to miss his "deadpan" delivery? You've done your best Graeme, but you are not the man for the times.

OK - what's needed for an extraordinary AGM? What kills me is the self centered nature of this board - putting AGM back to March because accountants can't knock out the financials by December? God give me strength!! Can someone please refer to rules, Corps code etc and see what we need to do to bring this farce to a head. Will save me a call to the club.

Hands up who's had a complete gutful of Pies and Bombers posting million dollar plus profits!!

We can still save our club, so let's go for it. Board members listen up - our famous club is FAR bigger that you as individuals. Maybe you can even save yourselves the humiliation of an "involuntary" departure and "fall on you swords" immediately. Like the Prez, I'm sure you've done your best, but please let democracy take its course, people.

GOD SAVE THE BLUES!!!

is cloke any better than zantuck as a pick up?

too short to dominate ruck
too slow to play KP
he's not an overly smart footballer who's football smarts will outweigh his footballing shortfalls
cloke also has question marks from the past

Everitt?!? but I get your point.