Our next coach?

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2862

winfieldblue wrote:

... but he needs to coach at the club for 10 years. imho.

Getting a little off the topic here, but you got me thinking winfield...do long term coaches have success at clubs? Here's the run down since 1978, in terms of what year of a coach's stint he won a Premiership...

1st year as coach of a club - 5
2nd year - 7
3rd year - 2
4th year - 4
5th year - 7
6th year - 1
7th year - 1
13th year - 1
20th year - 1

Interestingly, in terms of a FIRST Premeriship, the longest period of time is Williams (6), Parkin (Carl, second stint - 5), Roos (4 1/2) and Matthews (Coll - 4 1/2).

Actual numbers for a first Premiership in a stint as coach...

1st year - 5
2nd year - 5
3rd year - 2
4th year - 3
5th year - 2
6th year - 1

All this suggests a number of things...

Over 50% of coaches since 1978 won their first flag in their first 2 years of that particular coaching stint. 83% withhin the first 4 years.

If you haven't won a flag by year 5 or 6, forget it, time to move on.

Even if you have won a flag, the chances of winning another flag in ths ame stint of coaching after 5 years is very low, afgter 7, you have to be Sheedy.

Begs the question...do we want anyone coaching us for 10 years? It seems coaches, no matter how good, have a natural life-span at a club of aroun 6 or 7 years.

(Worsfold is in his 6th year now, will be interesting to see if he can get any more flags our of WC)

JJJ · **Joined:** Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:16 am **Posts:** 135

Livo didnt perform - axed
Prenda didnt perform - axed
G Smorgon didnt perform - axed
Pagans not performing - ?????

Like the examples above Pagan has had his go.

On his successor the club should select carefully, employ due process and BE BOLD

If the correct slection process is in place we lessen the chance of flowering up.

With the correct process an untried guy like Voss has a better opportunity to shine.

I agree with Voss - lets not subscribe to other peoples preconceptions. Lets make our own minds up
:wink:

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2862

Wolfe wrote:

THe Daniher senario of his resignation is i think a good thing for the Blues as it will now put pressure on how we plan for 2008

The fact that Melbourne will be looking for a coach will now put pressure on the Blues decision to start to work out if Pagan remains or if we as Pratt says that we need to get the best option

Voss maybe a candidate for the blues but with Melbourne looking at him maybe keen to act more swiftly and Voss would be a good fit for a very young side which in Voss would get a youthful and determined to succeed young coach.

Also appealing to the Blues will e having its own reserves side..

Consider that Daniher is a trigger for the Blues to start to plan for 2008 now rather than in 3 months

Tend to agree Wolfe.

However, interesting to cast our minds back tothe end of 2004. Three clubs were looking for coaches. Bulldogs very quickly appointed Eade. Richmond then appointed Wallace. Hawthorn was castigated by the media and many of its members for being slow to act, and missing out on the best candidates, in particular, Wallace, who was seen as a likely fit. In its defence, it insisted that it had put a process in place, was going to follow it through to the end, and would not be rushed by the threat of missing out on candidates if other clubs chose to act quicker.

In the end, they went with Clarkson. Who do you think is happier with its coach right now, Hawthorn or Richmond?

camel · **Posted:** Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:24 pm

Jarusa wrote:

Voss is quite simply and inspirational person.

Read the following for just one example: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s45483.htm

... and just on the broken leg, he did it early in 1998 and as out for ten months, I vaguely remember him being involved in the coaches box while injured throughout that year?

Thanks for that Jars, I'd forgotten how bad his leg was. Amazing! :shock:

The Duke · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:16 am

For those outside Melbourne, there was a whisper on 3AWs rumour file that influential Blues had met with Matthews at the QANTAS lounge recently.

Jon Anderson from the Hun then backed up the rumour shortly after. Could this just be the beginning of the end for Dennis?

I'm not sure about Matthews, he put heaps of pressure on Brown a couple of years back to re-sign with Brissie and stay loyal.

Maybe we were getting a character reference for M.Voss :shock:

camel · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:11 am

The Duke wrote:

For those outside Melbourne, there was a whisper on 3AWs rumour file that influential Blues had met with Matthews at the QANTAS lounge recently.

Jon Anderson from the Hun then backed up the rumour shortly after. Could this just be the beginning of the end for Dennis?

I'm not sure about Matthews, he put heaps of pressure on Brown a couple of years back to re-sign with Brissie and stay loyal.

Maybe we were getting a character reference for M.Voss :shock:

Or maybe 99prelim is not as leftfield as he thinks. :-D

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... 572#535572

MIL · **Joined:** Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:43 pm **Posts:** 4745

The 3AW Rumour File caller also said that a "friend of Carlton" was willing to pay out Pagan's contract. Hmmm, Matthews to the Baggers and Voss to take over the Lions ? :-D

Kouta · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:38 am

No to Matthews and an old coach.

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

I'm in favour of Voss getting the job but have cooled off him a bit due to his involment with Grant Thomas..
Thomas as a mentor to Voss doesnt impress me.....I dont want to have Thomas as a defacto coach due if Voss starts to feel the pressure.
I think it has to be Voss with a fresh team of assistants..not Voss as the frontman with Thomas, Alves, Shaw or the like to hold his hand....

Sniff Wilson · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:12 pm

i would accept Voss with alves any day of the week. Alves is a brilliant coach but even more importantly a brilliant motivator and leader of men.

Rhys26 · **Joined:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:12 am **Posts:** 1730

Elwood Blues1 wrote:

I'm in favour of Voss getting the job but have cooled off him a bit due to his involment with Grant Thomas..
Thomas as a mentor to Voss doesnt impress me.....I dont want to have Thomas as a defacto coach due if Voss starts to feel the pressure.
I think it has to be Voss with a fresh team of assistants..not Voss as the frontman with Thomas, Alves, Shaw or the like to hold his hand....

We dont need dirty guys like Thomas at our club...play on.

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

Sniff Wilson wrote:

i would accept Voss with alves any day of the week. Alves is a brilliant coach but even more importantly a brilliant motivator and leader of men.

Why have Voss at all if Alves is all that you say?

DownUnderChick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:50 pm

Elwood Blues1 wrote:

Sniff Wilson wrote:

i would accept Voss with alves any day of the week. Alves is a brilliant coach but even more importantly a brilliant motivator and leader of men.

Why have Voss at all if Alves is all that you say?

QFT

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10461

I've said this before and I'll say it again, Matthews is the best in the league by a country mile.

Two examples if people don't believe me:
1. Current list of kids after their reign! :idea:

Won't be long before this group will be playing regular finals again and without any bottoming out. :wink:

2. He took Collingwood to a premiership. :shock:

Biggest steal in modern day footy if we could get him.

camel · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:09 pm

Elwood Blues1 wrote:

I'm in favour of Voss getting the job but have cooled off him a bit due to his involment with Grant Thomas..
Thomas as a mentor to Voss doesnt impress me.....I dont want to have Thomas as a defacto coach due if Voss starts to feel the pressure.
I think it has to be Voss with a fresh team of assistants..not Voss as the frontman with Thomas, Alves, Shaw or the like to hold his hand....

Agreed. Mind, of those names mentioned I could see Alves in an unofficial mentor role, kind of similar to Terry Jenner and Shane Warne. Not really a coach or assistant as such, just a helping hand when asked.

malbi · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:47 pm

Siegfried wrote:

If you haven't won a flag by year 5 or 6, forget it, time to move on.

Even if you have won a flag, the chances of winning another flag in ths ame stint of coaching after 5 years is very low, afgter 7, you have to be Sheedy.

I think that these stats show that if you haven't won a premiership after 5 or 6 years forget it. You will be moved on. Not many last for much longer.

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2862

malleefowl wrote:

Siegfried wrote:

If you haven't won a flag by year 5 or 6, forget it, time to move on.

Even if you have won a flag, the chances of winning another flag in ths ame stint of coaching after 5 years is very low, afgter 7, you have to be Sheedy.

I think that these stats show that if you haven't won a premiership after 5 or 6 years forget it. You will be moved on. Not many last for much longer.

You've got me thinking Mallee...so I am now going to have a look at each club since 1990, and see how many of them hung onto coaches for more than 5 years without a flag...

Coll - Malthouse (currently in 8th year)
Freo - Connolly (currently in 5th year)
Geel - Thompson (currently in 8th year)
Melb - Daniher (10 years), Northey (7)
Port - Williams (won flag in 6th year)
St K - Thomas (5.5 years)
Syd - Eade (7)
Dogs - Wallace (6.5)

Makes interesting reading. You are right Mallee, there were quite a few coaches that were given the flick (or resigned) after 5 years. With the exception of 3 current day coaches, it's been rare to be at a club without a flag for more than 5 years.

Also, Bris, WC and Adelaide, which between them have won 8 of the 17 Premierships since 1990, have been ruthless with their coaches. If they haven't had success within 5 years, see ya later.

Wolfe · **Posted:** Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:09 pm

There will be some big changes at years end maybe earlier but definately The Blues will have some changes in the coaching Panel

Very likely that Voss will be at the Blues in 2008

eric pascoe · **Joined:** Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:30 pm **Posts:** 379

A quote from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar (Act IV, Scene 3):
"There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows, and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat;
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures."

Modern translation: GET VOSS

99prelim · **Joined:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm **Posts:** 3560

DIRECTOR OF COACHING (Leigh Mathews)
SENIOR COACH (Michael Voss) RESERVES COACH (Brett Ratten)

CAPTAIN (Nick Stevens)

How does that sound for an honour board???????????

Our next coach?

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