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Who should coach us next year?
Brad Scott 16%  16%  [ 16 ]
Michael Voss 20%  20%  [ 19 ]
Mark Williams 11%  11%  [ 11 ]
Don Pyke 22%  22%  [ 21 ]
Danny Daly 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Scott Burns 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Giansiracusa 5%  5%  [ 5 ]
Jaymie Graham 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Adam Kingsley 16%  16%  [ 16 ]
Adam Yze 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Nigel Lappin 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Jarrad Schofield 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Steven King 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 97
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:41 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Walsh wrote:
The actual finding were the team couldn't defend.. absolute farcical when year 1 was in a hub and didnt have a pre season with facilities and year 2 had VFL for seven games with an injury list miles long all year. Key decisions need to be made but that was a very short sighted and incorrect decision.

Do you have access to the full review report and the feedback on the report by key people at the club? I certainly don’t. The people who do have access to it all have made significant changes to the coaching staff and the board.

It’s one thing to have misgivings about the decision makers at the club (I have some myself) but it’s another to present unsubstantiated statements as “facts”.

You have provided your opinion in this thread (and multiple others) and your opinion has been formed without access to all the relevant information. There’s nothing wrong with that - we all do it because we are fans, none of us are on the board! The problem comes about when we (fans, posters, media) assert our opinions as “facts”.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:53 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Crusader wrote:
At this rate, we’ll be reduced to Dean Laidley or Mick McGuane.

Sorry you mean Dani !!

Every time there is photo of him , it’s always in a Carlton top

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:56 am 
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Rod Ashman
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azzablue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
At this rate, we’ll be reduced to Dean Laidley or Mick McGuane.

Sorry you mean Dani !!

Every time there is photo of him , it’s always in a Carlton top

Sorry, you mean her !!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:59 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Lyon has nobody to blame other than himself and his FC colleagues. Should have kept his mouth shut.

Come on , surely you know that he was forced into that situation and he was given the green light for the job

Anyways that’s over with , next !!

I think you will find a lot of movement at the club when cats Finish their finals campaign

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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muzza wrote:
azzablue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
At this rate, we’ll be reduced to Dean Laidley or Mick McGuane.

Sorry you mean Dani !!

Every time there is photo of him , it’s always in a Carlton top

Sorry, you mean her !!

Touché… could be a them/they situation for all we know.

We’re obviously not ready for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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So, I have thought about this, and this is my best solution.

Throw everything at Clarko. $1.5 mil next year, $1mil per year after that.

Surround him with inexpensive recently retired players, or coaches from metro or VFL level as assistants to save money next year for the soft cap.

If Clarko says no, Mark Williams as senior coach on a 3 year deal and the BEST assistant in the land as his senior assistant.
In 3 years, if Choco is kicking goals, we keep him.
If he has pissed veryone off by then with hsi abrasive personality, the better of Luke Power or the senior assistant gets the job.

Choco will reform the team and Cookey can reform the club.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I cant see the value in Williams. Yes he adds the ra-ra that Goodwin will pull out of the drawer every so often but he is from a past era.
Let's remember he's only been back in the AFL system less than 12 months. 2 years ago he was coaching suburban Ammo's football. And when he was coaching AFL footy, he was a loose cannon. He's a dinosaur that needs to be kept on a very short leash.

As for Worsfold, he's been sacked twice for being too inflexible and lacking tactical awareness. That's the last thing we need.

There's still options out there. I originally wanted Pyke and as far as I know, he's not out of the running. There are also plenty of quality young coaches out there. Go through a proper process, ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, (get the people who know what questions to ask!) and pick our coach based on knowledge.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:06 pm 
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Banned

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aboynamedsue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
The actual finding were the team couldn't defend.. absolute farcical when year 1 was in a hub and didnt have a pre season with facilities and year 2 had VFL for seven games with an injury list miles long all year. Key decisions need to be made but that was a very short sighted and incorrect decision.

Do you have access to the full review report and the feedback on the report by key people at the club? I certainly don’t. The people who do have access to it all have made significant changes to the coaching staff and the board.

It’s one thing to have misgivings about the decision makers at the club (I have some myself) but it’s another to present unsubstantiated statements as “facts”.

You have provided your opinion in this thread (and multiple others) and your opinion has been formed without access to all the relevant information. There’s nothing wrong with that - we all do it because we are fans, none of us are on the board! The problem comes about when we (fans, posters, media) assert our opinions as “facts”.


Oh grow up it goes both ways.

Sayers said it - Teague was sacked because of defensive gameplan and wants the best experienced coach.

Well he aint getting the best experienced coach the guy thinks too highly of himself and the defensive gameplan albeit admittedly was poor ball movement was tier 1 beginning of the year.

..and its bloody hard to defend when you're constantly getting smashed out of stoppages and clearances as cattle was weak in there.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:13 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Nick wrote:
Ask in 5 years time :razz:

I don't think we will have to ask. :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Walsh is still at it.
The mind boggles.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
aboynamedsue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
The actual finding were the team couldn't defend.. absolute farcical when year 1 was in a hub and didnt have a pre season with facilities and year 2 had VFL for seven games with an injury list miles long all year. Key decisions need to be made but that was a very short sighted and incorrect decision.

Do you have access to the full review report and the feedback on the report by key people at the club? I certainly don’t. The people who do have access to it all have made significant changes to the coaching staff and the board.

It’s one thing to have misgivings about the decision makers at the club (I have some myself) but it’s another to present unsubstantiated statements as “facts”.

You have provided your opinion in this thread (and multiple others) and your opinion has been formed without access to all the relevant information. There’s nothing wrong with that - we all do it because we are fans, none of us are on the board! The problem comes about when we (fans, posters, media) assert our opinions as “facts”.

Absolutely correct !! He probably still thinks Teague is coming back …

Can you break the news to him that’s not possible …

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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aboynamedsue wrote:
malbi wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
malbi wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
So what’s the solution malbi? You’ve said what you think the problem is, now tell us what you think the solution is.

Pick a coach and support them. Don't undermine them like the board did this year.

Other clubs have gone through reviews and supported their coaches. Geelong and Thompson. Richmond and Hardwick. Port Adelaide and Hinkley. Melbourne and Goodwin. Thompson and Hardwick had the ultimate success. Hinkley and Goodwin have their teams humming this year.

Carlton is too reactive. If we don't get immediate success then it is sack the coach and replace him. As it turns out that has not solved the problem.

You said the board made a mistake by picking a coach who wasn’t good enough and now you’re saying they should have stuck by him? If he wasn’t good enough, wouldn’t keeping him have been a case of “two wrongs don’t make a right”?

You said you don’t have confidence in the board to make the right appointment. Fair enough. I asked for your solution to that problem and I don’t see a clear answer to that question in your response.

Are you saying that you are OK with Sayers et al picking the coach as long as they stubbornly stick by their decision, even if the decision is clearly shown to be wrong two years later? Or are you saying you don’t want this board to make the selection? If it’s the latter, do you think the Carlton Now ticket has the expertise, connections and experience to make a better selection?

What I am saying is that the board should stick by their decisions. If they sign up a coach they believe them to be the best coach at the time. If they sign up someone for a three year contract then they should back that coach for three years. Don't undermine a coach a year and a half into their contract. All of the coaches can coach. Some of them are better than others. However, results don't just lie at the feet of the coach. There is recruitment. There is development. There is medical. They all play a part. The thing is that while Sayers was on the board they have sacked four coaches. Was it the coaches fault or the board that didn't have faith in their original decision?

So the club should ignore the findings of the most significant independent review of its football department it has ever undertaken and stick with a coach who is failing? Teague wasn’t sacked on a whim. Like I said earlier “two wrongs don’t make a right” - if the board erred by selecting Teague without running a proper process, then I don’t want them to double down and make another mistake by persisting with a situation that isn’t working.
The key now is to look forward - we need a thorough process to recruit the new coach and then surround him with a structure that will give him the best chance to succeed. That does not guarantee success, so continuous review/performance monitoring is necessary and the board should have the courage to make a change in the future if the arrangements are not working (that doesn’t necessarily mean sack the head coach, but it may if the evidence shows he is an issue).

How can you do a review over Zoom? Seriously! Pavlich didn't come over here.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
Walsh wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
The actual finding were the team couldn't defend.. absolute farcical when year 1 was in a hub and didnt have a pre season with facilities and year 2 had VFL for seven games with an injury list miles long all year. Key decisions need to be made but that was a very short sighted and incorrect decision.

Do you have access to the full review report and the feedback on the report by key people at the club? I certainly don’t. The people who do have access to it all have made significant changes to the coaching staff and the board.

It’s one thing to have misgivings about the decision makers at the club (I have some myself) but it’s another to present unsubstantiated statements as “facts”.

You have provided your opinion in this thread (and multiple others) and your opinion has been formed without access to all the relevant information. There’s nothing wrong with that - we all do it because we are fans, none of us are on the board! The problem comes about when we (fans, posters, media) assert our opinions as “facts”.


Oh grow up it goes both ways.

Sayers said it - Teague was sacked because of defensive gameplan and wants the best experienced coach.

Well he aint getting the best experienced coach the guy thinks too highly of himself and the defensive gameplan albeit admittedly was poor ball movement was tier 1 beginning of the year.

..and its bloody hard to defend when you're constantly getting smashed out of stoppages and clearances as cattle was weak in there.

You and your injury list excuse

Wc Wafl team best us , did you forget that ??
North bottom of the ladder beats us , did you forget that ??

Oh hang on a 3 month travel weary Gold Coast team best us !! Case
Closed , get a grip your boy was incompetent at a game plan and playing politics …

I hope you ain’t going to continue this garbage next season when Carlton loses a game , about your boy !!

Cause I hate to break the bad news to you , Carlton will lose again but at least they will have a game plan …

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Blue Vain wrote:
I cant see the value in Williams. Yes he adds the ra-ra that Goodwin will pull out of the drawer every so often but he is from a past era.
Let's remember he's only been back in the AFL system less than 12 months. 2 years ago he was coaching suburban Ammo's football. And when he was coaching AFL footy, he was a loose cannon. He's a dinosaur that needs to be kept on a very short leash.

As for Worsfold, he's been sacked twice for being too inflexible and lacking tactical awareness. That's the last thing we need.

There's still options out there. I originally wanted Pyke and as far as I know, he's not out of the running. There are also plenty of quality young coaches out there. Go through a proper process, ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, (get the people who know what questions to ask!) and pick our coach based on knowledge.



I don't disagree with the sentiment BV but didn't we go through "a process" with the "right people" when we got Bolton and it turned out "wrong"! How do we get it right this time? Maybe we need a process to select the right people to select the right coach? :banghead:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:12 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Why was Bolton appointment wrong?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:18 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
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It's more art than science.
Irrespective of the choice, there is still a large slice of luck and timing.
Our last 5 coaches consist of two Premiership coaches, and three rookies. None of them worked.
Either this means we need an experienced coach who has not yet won a flag or we need to recognise that there is no sure-fire way to pick the right coach (and probably accept that a coach is just one piece of the puzzle).

A proper process is important to get a sense of a coach, his approach and where/how he plans to move forward. For an experienced coach like Clarkson or Lyon (or the Scott brothers for that matter), most of this is already known - just need to get their thoughts on where/how to move forward from where we are now. As Parkin did when he came back in 1991.

For the inexperienced group, we'd need them to go through a more thorough process because too much is unknown.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:21 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
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It’s our club

It’s our process

You’re either up for it or not.

Ross wasn’t


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:22 pm 
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formerly Fevola

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We just need a tough but fair guy that cares about people. Malthouse and Pagan were too ruthless and Bolton, Teague and Ratten were too buddy buddy.

This is why after Clarkson, I would like Brad Scott or Buckley.

Other than that, whoever fits the tough but fair criteria with a good football mind.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:36 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Drewgirl wrote:
We just need a tough but fair guy that cares about people. Malthouse and Pagan were too ruthless and Bolton, Teague and Ratten were too buddy buddy.

This is why after Clarkson, I would like Brad Scott or Buckley.

Other than that, whoever fits the tough but fair criteria with a good football mind.

:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17959
carntheblues wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I cant see the value in Williams. Yes he adds the ra-ra that Goodwin will pull out of the drawer every so often but he is from a past era.
Let's remember he's only been back in the AFL system less than 12 months. 2 years ago he was coaching suburban Ammo's football. And when he was coaching AFL footy, he was a loose cannon. He's a dinosaur that needs to be kept on a very short leash.

As for Worsfold, he's been sacked twice for being too inflexible and lacking tactical awareness. That's the last thing we need.

There's still options out there. I originally wanted Pyke and as far as I know, he's not out of the running. There are also plenty of quality young coaches out there. Go through a proper process, ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, (get the people who know what questions to ask!) and pick our coach based on knowledge.



I don't disagree with the sentiment BV but didn't we go through "a process" with the "right people" when we got Bolton and it turned out "wrong"! How do we get it right this time? Maybe we need a process to select the right people to select the right coach? :banghead:


I don't think the Bolton appointment was wrong. We sold him up the creek. He was told to play the kids and persist with development under the guise of being supported until we came out the other side. I suspect he was told we'd get mature bodies like Rockliff to help carry the load but none of it eventuated.
IMHO, the losses impacted his mindset and that of the players. Rightly or wrongly we didn't have the strength to see it through and Bolton was sacked.
Personally, I think he was great value. He stuck fat with our objectives when all the pressure was applied and our kids were given every opportunity to prove themselves at AFL level. Sadly when the hard work was done and a circuit breaker was required to take the next step, Bolton was the one to go.
But I don't undervalue his contribution. I think he was a better coach than Teague and he set standards that we will benefit from.

So the process was OK IMHO. It's the lack of experienced personnel to help him to see it through that was his downfall.

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