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Stefchook
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 8129
Sydney Blue wrote:
7 wins 15 losses 76.3% (2016)

Currently 5 wins 15 losses 79.3% (2017)


Percentage is usually a far better gauge of where you're at than win-loss anyway. If you happen to win 3 games by 1 point rather than lose 3 games by a point, it doesn't make you a considerably better team. So the improvement of our percentage from last year is real improvement.

And that doesn't even take into account whether you're putting games into young talent vs. experienced players. Etc. etc.
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steve
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:42 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Younger team this year. Go back to round 20 last year and take a look at the changes. Rowe, Tuohy, Walker, Armfield, Buckley & White all played. As did Cripps & Curnow.

Cripps & Curnow are best 22 missing the last third of the season. Tuohy & Walker gone. Rowe, Armfield, Buckley & White played less senior footy.

That's 8 changes from the round 20 team last year (when the saints smashed us BTW) to the team running around lately (yes, Armfield's played the last couple, but not many games for the season).

We've got a substantially younger side, with more potential IMO, giving very similar output. On that basis I'm very happy with the progress this year. It's a stronger foundation for future improvement.
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Donstuie
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:32 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Guys, I think it's clear that SB's mind is made up

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Crippa
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:47 am 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
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Donstuie wrote:
Guys, I think it's clear that SB's mind is made up


Lost cause. Shame. So much to like and enjoy this season.
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BigBlueWave
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:53 am 
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formerly BlueRob
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Sydney Blue wrote:
GWS wrote:
In 2009 Sydney Blue wrote:
Recent History is riddled with fans go ape over their coach and their game plan only to see a year of two later that same game plan win them a flag.

Port - two years of finishing on top and were bundled out in straight sets - terrific list played very unaccountable football- The public claimed that their style would never win them a flag - It did

Swans - blasted from pillar to post for playing ugly unattractive football and they weren't winning at the time- Roos stuck to his guns - wins him a flag and runner up the following year

West Coast - gun midfield but were never going to win anything without the power forward - Worsfold wasn't sucked in to trading midfielders for a CHF - won them a flag and runner up

Geelong- remember ring around the rosy at Geelong high possessions chip chip stuff and lots of handball -they constantly turned the ball over and were beaten - Nothings changed they just got better at what they were doing

Hawthorn - Clarkson there were calls for his head from day one - They were not pushing forward trying to maintain possession and had unusual set ups an match ups that no one could understand - They slashed their list -high profile players were getting dumped and the side was copping some floggings - Did they budge - no

Now I know I might be pulling a very very long bow here - but who is to say that what we are seeing each and every week isn't the start of the greatest unbeatable game plan that ever existed

We know at the moment it often looks like total garbage but so did all the others - how do we know that the current blokes sitting in the coaches box are not the next bunch of football genius
I was defending Ratten in 2009 .
And I will still go into bat for Ratten. He had us winning.
One bad year with an horrendous injury and we ditched him.
He took us forward every year bar his last where he had a legitimate excuse.
I still stand by those comments on Ratten and what he was doing .
He took the club that had supposably one of the worst list to a kick of the prelim and discounting his first 6 games where he took over from Pagan he had a winning % of 54%

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Agree 100% SB. To think that Ratten was ditched for the Madhouse. It was always gunna be a dumb decision.

Never should have happened.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

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Sydney Blue
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:10 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Stefchook wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
7 wins 15 losses 76.3% (2016)

Currently 5 wins 15 losses 79.3% (2017)


Percentage is usually a far better gauge of where you're at than win-loss anyway. If you happen to win 3 games by 1 point rather than lose 3 games by a point, it doesn't make you a considerably better team. So the improvement of our percentage from last year is real improvement.

And that doesn't even take into account whether you're putting games into young talent vs. experienced players. Etc. etc.


14 Carlton 22 7 15 0 1568 1978 79.3 28
17 Carlton 20 5 15 0 1460 1830 79.8 20

Sorry Stef got it wrong
Attack wise - same same
Defence wise - same same - and yet you will get a 1000 people saying we have a better defence
win loss- need to win last two to be on par with last year

the club has gone backwards - there has been no improvement and before anyone brings up the 5 NRS nominations remember Darrren Hulme , Aaron Joseph, Troy Menzal , Chris Yarren and Dylan Buckley were all NRS nominations

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GWS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I'm not sure why it's so difficult to see that what we had in 2014 is in no way comparable to now. We've basically started again from scratch at the end of 2015.

In 2014 we had Chris Judd. Take him out of that side and put him into this one and what do your win/loss figures look like? So should we just go and get the next Judd? If we don't give up a 1st, a 2nd and a future multiple Coleman medallist or similar then maybe. Otherwise no.

You're using a metric that has little meaning when you're starting from scratch. What we're building is essentially a new club.

We don't have a solid group of senior leaders and until we can develop them and move the pretenders on we're going to lose more games than we win. The real progress is in that development. Maybe you can't see it.

Most of us think we can.

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Rexy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:07 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Syd I reckon you've gone 12 months early.
If we're still playing negative defensive footy next year and struggling to score I'm with you.
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gasbill
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:11 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:33 am
Posts: 48
Location: Croxton
Retrospective nit picking is useless, and easy.
Glass more than half full for mine
Go Blues!

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:43 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
With the help of COLA Swans recruited million dollar man Tippett.
Swans won a premiership in 2012 with the help of COLA.
The next year they recruited Buddy with COLA.

Very different to Carlton.

Guess what? The AFL have dropped COLA. I wonder why?

This year Swans lost 6 in a row because they had to play the kids due to injury.
Their kids vs our kids and we won.
Why did they have to play the kids?
Because they lack depth. How?
Players like Tippett, Buddy, Heeney, Kennedy, Hannaberry...take up a large percentage of the salary cap.
Not much left to pay for quality depth players.

Carlton don't have a Messiah now that Judd is gone and the contract of Malthouse's love child Thomas is just about history too.

WE are on a 66 game rebuild, and I like what I'm seeing.

Backwards, forwards...blah blah...we are on track whether you choose to believe it or not.
That 66 game rebuild has been public news since SOS came onboard.

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doofdoof
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
We've played between 7 to 10 players aged 20 and under 16 times this season. Most of these are teenagers.
I think most agree that every single one of these guys have shown something & seem to be developing well under Bolts.
The group doesn't include Cripps (22), Doc(23) and Plowman(22) who should serve us well for a while yet.
Maybe I have my navy blue glasses on but to me it looks like the foundations for a strong future are there.
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BigKev
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Very difficult to argue shades of grey with this one without being accused of panicking, (or some such insult).

Strong focus on youth, five rising star nominations in one season. Got to be happy with the overall approach and let's all hope it yields future dividends.

BUT !!!

To completely discount our ladder position as being insignificant I think is wrong. It's not necessarily being short-sighted to think that our on-field performance can have an impact on the development of our young players. At the moment they're learning how to play for the worst team in the competition.

Personally I wouldn't like to see us dump any more players for draft picks. How many more kids do we need right now? I'd keep Gibbs and Casboult, (the latter depending of course on how much he wants), and I'd also hope that players like Thomas and Simpson stick around for another year. If the more seasoned players can't get a game because some youngster's better than them then fantastic, but let's keep some depth and experience for when the kids get tired or lose form.
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kezza
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14938
Rumour doing the rounds on the Rover of a three way deal.
Gibbs to Adelaide, McGovern to WCE and Gaff to us.
Article says that Gaff is the best of these players, not so sure about that, so some swap of picks may be thrown in.
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BigBlueWave
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:12 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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kezza wrote:
Rumour doing the rounds on the Rover of a three way deal.
Gibbs to Adelaide, McGovern to WCE and Gaff to us.
Article says that Gaff is the best of these players, not so sure about that, so some swap of picks may be thrown in.



Grrr ... I hope not.

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GWS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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#3 from WCE?

I feel like we've been here before...

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bluebo baggers
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Robert Walls
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So Gibbs for Gaff?

GAGF!

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Teddy Hopkins
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Gaff is a Melbourne boy and in his prime.

But at 26 next year he needs to be a leader. Is he?

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verbs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:39 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Gaff for Gibbs plus Kelly and Hopper would be insane. Finals.
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Crippa
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
Sydney Blue wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
7 wins 15 losses 76.3% (2016)

Currently 5 wins 15 losses 79.3% (2017)


Percentage is usually a far better gauge of where you're at than win-loss anyway. If you happen to win 3 games by 1 point rather than lose 3 games by a point, it doesn't make you a considerably better team. So the improvement of our percentage from last year is real improvement.

And that doesn't even take into account whether you're putting games into young talent vs. experienced players. Etc. etc.


14 Carlton 22 7 15 0 1568 1978 79.3 28
17 Carlton 20 5 15 0 1460 1830 79.8 20

Sorry Stef got it wrong
Attack wise - same same
Defence wise - same same - and yet you will get a 1000 people saying we have a better defence
win loss- need to win last two to be on par with last year

the club has gone backwards - there has been no improvement and before anyone brings up the 5 NRS nominations remember Darrren Hulme , Aaron Joseph, Troy Menzal , Chris Yarren and Dylan Buckley were all NRS nominations


Edited. My mistake SB. I thought you were talking about 2014 vs 2017 but then realised the 14 and 17 are 2016 and 2017 ladder positions.

I just feel sorry that you can't extract some joy out of this year and some of our fantastic performances. I hope the boys change your mind next year. I for one am thoroughly enjoying this year. Very excited about next year. GO BLUES!!
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kezza
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14938
BigBlueWave wrote:
kezza wrote:
Rumour doing the rounds on the Rover of a three way deal.
Gibbs to Adelaide, McGovern to WCE and Gaff to us.
Article says that Gaff is the best of these players, not so sure about that, so some swap of picks may be thrown in.



Grrr ... I hope not.

Poster on BF saying a similar trade but Shuey instead of Gaff.
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