Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Sun May 11, 2025 4:10 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1632 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 ... 82  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:29 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 6047
Sydney Blue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
It is negligent of the club in a professional competition to not put the best side on the park each week that will put them in a position to win.


Out of interest, when do you think we have done that in 2017? Example?
Port Adelaide game jumps out at me

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Who did we have in the reserves that week who would have been the difference in a game we lost by 15 goals?
Made 4 changes the following week and beat Sydney

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

So we tanked against Port, but decided not to against Sydney? Why would we do that?

We are not tanking for draft picks in 2017. Tanking is not the same as a genuine rebuild. What's happening in 2015-2018 bears no resemblance whatsoever to 2005-2007, when we had no plan (other than hoping #1 draft picks + Judd will fix everything). The club seems united at last and appears to be sticking to a long term strategy to set us up for sustained success. The Board seems to have finally accepted that there is no mechanism left to change the quality of your list in one trade season. No more quick fixes. No more messiahs.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:42 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10482
Actually for the 1st time in a long time, I don't think we are tanking. Last year, yes but not this year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:51 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18496
Location: threeohfivethree
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?

WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

FMD. :banghead:

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Last edited by GWS on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:52 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 6047
GWS wrote:
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?

WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

:clap:

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:17 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21415
Location: North of the border
GWS wrote:
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?

WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

FMD. :banghead:
Swans in the last 2 years have had more players debut than Carlton. They are 3rd favorite for the flag.
Essendon* hit by sanctions and loss of draft picks plus players out of the game for 12 months are likely to win 50 % of their games after only winning 3 last year..
Richmond won one more game than us last year now looking at top 4
Stkilda and Melbourne who have gone down the rebuild rout are 1 or 2 games better than last year.
Other than GWS who built from ground up and its the players they brought in that gell this side.
Rebuilding is not all what its cracked up to be

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:25 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17952
aboynamedsue wrote:
GWS wrote:
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?

WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

:clap:


:thumbsup:

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:40 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33618
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
Rexy wrote:
The AFL will make us strong again... even it takes them humiliating us again by gifting us priority picks

Nah, "we all want Carlton to be strong again" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:40 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
AGRO wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
I'm sure Sydney Blue would not want us to go all 2004 again and pump up our list with Digby Morrells and Jordan Bannisters and Daniel Harfords to finish an honourable 11th and draft in an Adam Hartlett and a Jordan Russell.
Gorringe Palmer Smedts Thomas Phillips KJ
Would all like to say hello Agro

We have been turning over 10 plus players a year for the last ten years.
The side needs to forget about planning for the future and start planning for the now as the future might never come.
They need to start winning and develop a winning culture

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk



Those players aren't forming the core part of the best 22 playing unit.

:wink:


I don't agree with SB, however we did give Phillips an additional 2 year contract....

And there's more players, that are list cloggers/bad contracts that SOS brought to the club

Would have preferred to fully embrace the draft with more kids...

We're going to finish 17th or 18th anyway


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:53 pm 
Offline
Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
ColourMan wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
I'm sure Sydney Blue would not want us to go all 2004 again and pump up our list with Digby Morrells and Jordan Bannisters and Daniel Harfords to finish an honourable 11th and draft in an Adam Hartlett and a Jordan Russell.
Gorringe Palmer Smedts Thomas Phillips KJ
Would all like to say hello Agro

We have been turning over 10 plus players a year for the last ten years.
The side needs to forget about planning for the future and start planning for the now as the future might never come.
They need to start winning and develop a winning culture

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk



Those players aren't forming the core part of the best 22 playing unit.

:wink:


I don't agree with SB, however we did give Phillips an additional 2 year contract....

And there's more players, that are list cloggers/bad contracts that SOS brought to the club

Would have preferred to fully embrace the draft with more kids...

We're going to finish 17th or 18th anyway


Wasting a pick on a kid ruckman would be crazy.
Trading for a second string ruckman would be crazy.
You need insurance if Kruze gets injured and Phillips is that backup. So I understand why he needs to be on our list despite not being a great player.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:15 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
Sydney Blue wrote:
GWS wrote:
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?

WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

FMD. :banghead:
Swans in the last 2 years have had more players debut than Carlton. They are 3rd favorite for the flag.
Essendon** hit by sanctions and loss of draft picks plus players out of the game for 12 months are likely to win 50 % of their games after only winning 3 last year..
Richmond won one more game than us last year now looking at top 4
Stkilda and Melbourne who have gone down the rebuild rout are 1 or 2 games better than last year.
Other than GWS who built from ground up and its the players they brought in that gell this side.
Rebuilding is not all what its cracked up to be

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Might be time to pick another interest?

_________________
dane's trolling again


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:17 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18496
Location: threeohfivethree
Sydney Blue wrote:
GWS wrote:
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?

WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

FMD. :banghead:
Swans in the last 2 years have had more players debut than Carlton. They are 3rd favorite for the flag.
Essendon** hit by sanctions and loss of draft picks plus players out of the game for 12 months are likely to win 50 % of their games after only winning 3 last year..
Richmond won one more game than us last year now looking at top 4
Stkilda and Melbourne who have gone down the rebuild rout are 1 or 2 games better than last year.
Other than GWS who built from ground up and its the players they brought in that gell this side.
Rebuilding is not all what its cracked up to be

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


How many of those clubs lost nine games by more than ten goals two years ago?

We're coming from miles back compared to all of those clubs and I actually think we've made ground on pretty much all of them. It might not show up in the wins and losses column at this stage but we're building an entirely new list, we have a new coaching team, new recruitment team and we're essentially starting from scratch.

Oh...and despite all of that, this year Carlton defeated Essendon* by 15 points, Sydney by 19 points and GWS by 1 point.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:25 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 48542
Location: Prison Island
GWS wrote:

Oh...and despite all of that, this year Carlton defeated Essendon** by 15 points, Sydney by 19 points and GWS by 1 point.


Image

_________________
*(grow - fun - gah) :fight:

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:30 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Crippa wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
I'm sure Sydney Blue would not want us to go all 2004 again and pump up our list with Digby Morrells and Jordan Bannisters and Daniel Harfords to finish an honourable 11th and draft in an Adam Hartlett and a Jordan Russell.
Gorringe Palmer Smedts Thomas Phillips KJ
Would all like to say hello Agro

We have been turning over 10 plus players a year for the last ten years.
The side needs to forget about planning for the future and start planning for the now as the future might never come.
They need to start winning and develop a winning culture

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk



Those players aren't forming the core part of the best 22 playing unit.

:wink:


I don't agree with SB, however we did give Phillips an additional 2 year contract....

And there's more players, that are list cloggers/bad contracts that SOS brought to the club

Would have preferred to fully embrace the draft with more kids...

We're going to finish 17th or 18th anyway


Wasting a pick on a kid ruckman would be crazy.
Trading for a second string ruckman would be crazy.
You need insurance if Kruze gets injured and Phillips is that backup. So I understand why he needs to be on our list despite not being a great player.


Zac Smith, Dawson Simpson (who GWS preferred to Phillips), Jonathan Giles, Jack Fitzpatrick, Brayden Preuss, Ivan Soldo
Toby Nankervis, Jarrod Witts, Nathan Vardy, Sean Darcy, Brayden Preuss, Drew Petrie

Is that enough insurance for you?

All pretty much cost less too...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:31 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
I like GWS's post but let's not talk of injured players because all clubs have injuries


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:33 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21415
Location: North of the border
GWS wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
GWS wrote:
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?

WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

FMD. :banghead:
Swans in the last 2 years have had more players debut than Carlton. They are 3rd favorite for the flag.
Essendon*** hit by sanctions and loss of draft picks plus players out of the game for 12 months are likely to win 50 % of their games after only winning 3 last year..
Richmond won one more game than us last year now looking at top 4
Stkilda and Melbourne who have gone down the rebuild rout are 1 or 2 games better than last year.
Other than GWS who built from ground up and its the players they brought in that gell this side.
Rebuilding is not all what its cracked up to be

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


How many of those clubs lost nine games by more than ten goals two years ago?

We're coming from miles back compared to all of those clubs and I actually think we've made ground on pretty much all of them. It might not show up in the wins and losses column at this stage but we're building an entirely new list, we have a new coaching team, new recruitment team and we're essentially starting from scratch.

Oh...and despite all of that, this year Carlton defeated Essendon** by 15 points, Sydney by 19 points and GWS by 1 point.
7 wins 15 losses 76.3%

Currently

5 wins 15 losses 79.3%

Lose the last 2 games and a possible flogging round 23

Where is the improvement

Thats going backwards

Sorry I don't buy the bullshitte that gets fed to us

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:58 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:51 am
Posts: 4557
Location: lygon street
You have to look beyond win/loss

You don't have to "buy the bullshitte"as you say. Watching the kids improve week by week is there to see for yourself. If you can't see improvement in this team, you're not watching

_________________
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:07 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Sydney Blue wrote:
GWS wrote:
All these years people kept saying we had to stop the 100 point floggings.

Turns out we have to win games as well?



WTF?

In 2015 we lost 9 games by between 60 and 138 points.

This year we've lost two by more than 43 points.

Seven out of our last eight games have been against teams that will or can still make the eight.

We're currently missing our best player and our best stopper.

We've also debuted more kids than in any year in living memory.

How soon did people expect us to go from weekly slaughters to top 8?

For the first time in fifteen years I can see real and dramatic improvement at most levels of the club and a clear strategy that's clearly being implemented and apparently that's not good enough and we should try something different?

FMD. :banghead:
Swans in the last 2 years have had more players debut than Carlton. They are 3rd favorite for the flag.
Essendon** hit by sanctions and loss of draft picks plus players out of the game for 12 months are likely to win 50 % of their games after only winning 3 last year..
Richmond won one more game than us last year now looking at top 4
Stkilda and Melbourne who have gone down the rebuild rout are 1 or 2 games better than last year.
Other than GWS who built from ground up and its the players they brought in that gell this side.
Rebuilding is not all what its cracked up to be

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Your narrow use of facts without context defeats your argument. For example, the swans may have debuted more over 2 seasons. They are surrounded by Kennedy Mcveigh, Hannerbery, Franklin, Tippet and 10 other A and B graders. How many game did those kids play compared to ours? How many consecutive games did they play? Our kids were thrown to the wolves in some cases without preseasons and with little experience around them especially in the last 3rd of the season. If you cant see the upside, I can only imagine you will drag your arse along the ground until time on in the last qtr of the 2023 grandfinal when Carlton are 4 goals up and then post on here that you saw our resurgence all along.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:18 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18496
Location: threeohfivethree
In 2009 Sydney Blue wrote:
Recent History is riddled with fans go ape over their coach and their game plan only to see a year of two later that same game plan win them a flag.

Port - two years of finishing on top and were bundled out in straight sets - terrific list played very unaccountable football- The public claimed that their style would never win them a flag - It did

Swans - blasted from pillar to post for playing ugly unattractive football and they weren't winning at the time- Roos stuck to his guns - wins him a flag and runner up the following year

West Coast - gun midfield but were never going to win anything without the power forward - Worsfold wasn't sucked in to trading midfielders for a CHF - won them a flag and runner up

Geelong- remember ring around the rosy at Geelong high possessions chip chip stuff and lots of handball -they constantly turned the ball over and were beaten - Nothings changed they just got better at what they were doing

Hawthorn - Clarkson there were calls for his head from day one - They were not pushing forward trying to maintain possession and had unusual set ups an match ups that no one could understand - They slashed their list -high profile players were getting dumped and the side was copping some floggings - Did they budge - no

Now I know I might be pulling a very very long bow here - but who is to say that what we are seeing each and every week isn't the start of the greatest unbeatable game plan that ever existed

We know at the moment it often looks like total garbage but so did all the others - how do we know that the current blokes sitting in the coaches box are not the next bunch of football genius

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:25 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33618
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
grrofunger wrote:
GWS wrote:

Oh...and despite all of that, this year Carlton defeated Essendon*** by 15 points, Sydney by 19 points and GWS by 1 point.


Image

Grizzly Adams DID have a beard...

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:55 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21415
Location: North of the border
GWS wrote:
In 2009 Sydney Blue wrote:
Recent History is riddled with fans go ape over their coach and their game plan only to see a year of two later that same game plan win them a flag.

Port - two years of finishing on top and were bundled out in straight sets - terrific list played very unaccountable football- The public claimed that their style would never win them a flag - It did

Swans - blasted from pillar to post for playing ugly unattractive football and they weren't winning at the time- Roos stuck to his guns - wins him a flag and runner up the following year

West Coast - gun midfield but were never going to win anything without the power forward - Worsfold wasn't sucked in to trading midfielders for a CHF - won them a flag and runner up

Geelong- remember ring around the rosy at Geelong high possessions chip chip stuff and lots of handball -they constantly turned the ball over and were beaten - Nothings changed they just got better at what they were doing

Hawthorn - Clarkson there were calls for his head from day one - They were not pushing forward trying to maintain possession and had unusual set ups an match ups that no one could understand - They slashed their list -high profile players were getting dumped and the side was copping some floggings - Did they budge - no

Now I know I might be pulling a very very long bow here - but who is to say that what we are seeing each and every week isn't the start of the greatest unbeatable game plan that ever existed

We know at the moment it often looks like total garbage but so did all the others - how do we know that the current blokes sitting in the coaches box are not the next bunch of football genius
I was defending Ratten in 2009 .
And I will still go into bat for Ratten. He had us winning.
One bad year with an horrendous injury and we ditched him.
He took us forward every year bar his last where he had a legitimate excuse.
I still stand by those comments on Ratten and what he was doing .
He took the club that had supposably one of the worst list to a kick of the prelim and discounting his first 6 games where he took over from Pagan he had a winning % of 54%

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1632 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 ... 82  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 89 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group