People seem to forget the Hawk$ also rebuilt at a time before free agency and before the expansion clubs diluted the draft significantly. They also got significant assistance from the AFL in a whole host of ways we haven't.

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

And they tanked to great effect, as did Collingwood.

Sacking bolts doesn’t mean starting from scratch, not sure why so many people think that.

We won’t get anyone who will come in and do a malthouse.

Mind you 4 wins from 42, how much worse could it possibly get?

I’ve been asking myself this exact question every year for the last 15 years, and almost every year it gets worse.

Was gonna write the same. (Re adam's post.)
What shattered my trust in Bolts was having as close to best team we can for now(without doc and jones..arguably Willo) and we served up that mess.
As I don't think it is our talent pool I can only look to the coaches...plan, style of coaching, perhaps over coaching(seems to be a fair bit of buzz around that point) not saying how I might have heard it so don't ask. I love our club as everyone here does and it pains me to not a gazillion percent behind everyone.
Bolts seems to be a great bloke. I dont fault his endeavour.
I say get it over with sooner rather than later but wiser heads will decide. We won't be going back to scratch. We will be taking a massive step forward.
No more rebuilding. That part is done. We have to hone the craft of the players now and get the best out of each of them.
Plus add some more experience.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

I'm surprised we kept Barker on after he wasn't chosen as top banana. To be honest, nothing he has touched at the club has improved by any great measure, so despite being loyal to the club, surely he must be moved on. Would've been nice to get Sam Mitchell in under Bolts. That's what was identified with both Buckley and Hardwick - surround the coach with competent assistants.

How many years has Barker been a coach at Carlton? Surely it’s time to part ways? I mean if he’s good, he would’ve been poached by now.

About as long as most board members........

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

Exactly right regarding the rebuilding, we will continue to build on what we have from here, it’s not like we are going to go nuts and Scott/Ratts/Voss or whoever would come in and try and trade McKay/Curnow/Weitering or Walsh to try and get even more high end picks.

I think another problem is if someone comes from the hawks system into ours is Bolts saw when they had an established experienced side, it’s not comparable in anyway to what he’s going through with us at the moment.

So if he’s just trying to come up with a plan which young and inexperienced players, well we have what we have now.

Now as a rebuttal to that, if the whole club are on board with this, then fine but they would want a bloody good pay off at the end of all this.

SOS has got a list built with more holes than Swiss cheese. No experienced support for Cripps, no small forwards, no adequate backup ruck, and a list largely made up (outside of the high end talent) injury prone former high picks, project player long shots and salary dumps.

Keeping going the way we are going, I don’t think we will win another game this year. Whether the education of all of it will make us better in the long term, I really have my doubts.

That would get us to 4 wins out of our last 54, even if you are an extreme optimist you’d probably be thinking no more than 2 wins, so that’s still a run of 6 out of 54 games. Did anyone seriously think things would get to this level of ineptness?

We are coming from so far back that even though we are better than last year we are still clearly the worst side in the competition. Others near the bottom last year have improved as well, and those who have fallen away are still a fair way better than us (North, Melbourne).

What I’d want to know is what is the tipping point of all this? When do we need to begin showing we can at least win some games?

My posts was in relation to Watsons comments on Worsfold also could be made against Bolton. For the sake of clarity Watson said

“Luke Beveridge got a flag in his second year at the Bulldogs, Adam Simpson got his team into a Grand Final within two years and they won a flag in five, John Longmire got a flag in Sydney in his second year of coaching,” Watson told SEN Breakfast.

“Al Clarkson his fourth year, Chris Scott his first year, Ross Lyon got St Kilda into a Grand Final in his third year, got Fremantle into the Grand Final in his second year, and Don Pyke got Adelaide into a Grand Final in his second year.

Beridge, Simpson, Scott, Longmuir, Lyon and Pkye's lists was complete when they took over.

Only Clarkson had to complete the list turnover and even then it was in it's last year when he took over.

No one of these coaches started their tenure with 3 years of extreme list cutting.

At what point do you consider a rebuild completed, if it's based on the same criteria as Watson cited, then it is not 4th year into a rebuild.

Don't think Beverige had a complete list. They were still building.

15 of the 22 last had been at the club 3 years or more. 3 more have been on a list 3 years or more. Average age was 24yrs 85 days amongst that 22. Dogs average age of the 22 when they won the flag was 24yrs 144 days. Even comparing individual ages rather than averages, very little difference.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2 ... 01.html#p0

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2 ... 26.html#p1

Averages games, Dogs 82, Carlton 78. Players under 50 games, 9 each. It's identical. Only difference one side won a flag the other is on the bottom 1-9 with 4 wins from the last 42.

Just too many excuses. Our players are young but they are not kids anymore and have been playing together for a few years now. If we can't tell if the coach is any good now we never will.

“We want the win, there’s no doubt about that. But we can’t be distracted by that, we need to focus on improving”.

B. Bolton this morning.

No, flower that, we need to focus on WINNING!!!

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I'm shocked to be sitting here

It’s illogical to sakc Bolton when he’s never had a fit list to select from.

Yeah...dead man walking

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Does he actually realise we are in year 4, that much of the rebuild is done and now it's about developing them further winning multiple games of football. Not asking for finals yet just a decent amount of wins.

Think we can tell he's no good.

Not that many sides have fit lists to choose from. Sides that made the Grand Final last year were cruelled with injury.

No other team has a rebuilt list like us though

Emotions taking over rational thinking here I think

fit list has nothing to do with it, a good coach should be measured by wins and whether they get the best out of the players they have, he is failing on both of these measurements.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

You know 4 years is quite a long time. We have 4 wins from the last 42. How hard is it to make a judgement on that.

Our players have been together a few years now. That is no excuse. 15 of the 22 who played last week have been there 3 years or more, mostly more. 3 more on a list 3 years or more. We've cut and it has been mostly rebuilt. Just have to develop properly what we have, and part of that is winning multiple games

Both our average age and comparable age player for player are exactly the same as the Bulldogs 2016 Grand Final side.

There are no excuses anymore.

Agree with you, some just don’t seem to have the foresight, Brendon Bolton has instilled a great legacy built up the mentally of our youngsters and galvanized them too, not any easy task.
We move on with a very solid foundation and ite all positive , but we must progress quickly to a mentor that will develop them as men.
Simplicity , form, balance, tactical skills and a hard edged character.

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Go Blue Boys