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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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let casboult leave, get our compo pick for him and spend the off season working on creating a dynamic forward line
if he is only in the team for structure and to do donkey work, let's change the structure.

his contested marking is elite, but every other aspect of his game is average or below average


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I'm ok with paying Levi a decent (but not exorbitant) wage but there is no way in hell he justifies 4 years. I wouldn't even give him 3.

If he got 2 years at $500k he should be doing cartwheels. If Richmond is offering (as reported somewhere) 4 years at $600k p/a then he should go. I don't want the club to even consider that.

Levi is not a best 10 footballer. He is important for structure and flexibility but his kicking is still ratshit and his ruckwork bog ordinary. Let's be honest.

This is the classic "cash in because its your last chance" money grab from his agent. Good luck to him but I hope we don't pay for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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On the subject, if Levi goes I wonder if we will enquire about Lobb at GWS.

He has fallen out of favour and form a bit this year and dealing for him and (say) Hopper might be possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/08/10/casboult-worth-every-cent/

Quote:
Casboult worth every cent
By SEN 7 minutes ago

Ralph compared Casboult to Sydney forward Sam Reid who this week signed a four-year deal worth a reported $2 million.

“He’s a better player than Sam Reid,” he said.

“But quite often he goes missing whereas Casboult is a contested marking freak (ranked No. 1 in the competition) and his kicking is better than it was.”

Casboult, who will be 28 prior to the commencement of next season, is understood to want a four-year deal.


Yes Ralph has now convinced me Levi is worth more than 4x$500k. Richmond need to up their offer ! :cool:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I wonder if we haven't said something like, here's our offer (2-3 years on reasonable(ish) money). And then said, feel free to shop yourself around if you think you're worth more. If he gets no offers, he'll understand the market and have to take the offer, if the baseline contract is set at the right point, hopefully it means that a longer contract on more $ somewhere else gives us the pick we are looking for.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Robert Walls
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fmurphy30 wrote:
On the subject, if Levi goes I wonder if we will enquire about Lobb at GWS.

He has fallen out of favour and form a bit this year and dealing for him and (say) Hopper might be possible.


Has he?

I thought he'd just been injured. Would be a massive upgrade on Levi but he signed a new contract at the end of '16 and I think would very much be a required player up there.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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bluebo baggers wrote:
fmurphy30 wrote:
On the subject, if Levi goes I wonder if we will enquire about Lobb at GWS.

He has fallen out of favour and form a bit this year and dealing for him and (say) Hopper might be possible.


Has he?

I thought he'd just been injured. Would be a massive upgrade on Levi but he signed a new contract at the end of '16 and I think would very much be a required player up there.


He is playing (not very well) but is not the lynch pin he appeared to be last year. They are not using him as much as a focal point and his impact has been severely reduced. In part, this is because Patton has stepped up and (injury free) shown he is a very good player. I meant that Lobb is not necessarily vital to their structure as he was last year. He has only kicked 16.6 from 15 games. Last year it was 29.16.

He has also had less hit outs than Levi.

Lobb looked a star last year. I have seen GWS a bit in 2017 (trying to work out who we will poach) and he has been ordinary for the most part.

You don't lose your talent overnight but he is less important to them now than he was last year.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Why are we talking about another tall when our base problem is the mid field?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
Why are we talking about another tall when our base problem is the mid field?


If Casboult leaves, we probably need a ruck/forward. Unless we plan on using McKay. It has been rare for him to ruck in the Magoos.

We could use Jones but there are not many ruck/defenders running around...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Did you ever consider the reason as to why we only kick 10 goals a game is because most of our forward 50 entries are through Casboult


The reason we kick 10 goals per game is we only average about 46 inside 50s per game (second worse in the AFL) and we move the ball forward slower than anyone else. We nearly always play 4 or 5 forwards against 6 defenders so our forwards are hopelessly outnumbered.
Yet Casboult is number 1 in the AFL for contested marks and 12th in the AFL for marks inside 50. In a team that moves the ball quickly, he would have a picnic.

I don't want to keep him but I want us to get fair compensation for him as he's undervalued.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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bondiblue wrote:
Blues87 wrote:
Blues87 wrote:
I'd be open to Redpath. We just need a stop gap to fill that role while McKay, Kerr, Curnow, Silvagni (x2?) mature if Levi departs. If clubs see the best of what Bryce and Levi offer, there'll be no better time to part ways and capture some value for them. An off season I'd like to see would focus heavily on building the quality and depth of our midfield. Perfect case scenario based on some rumours that have circulated.

Departing Players
- Gibbs (to Adelaide, part of three way trade with the Bulldogs. Gibbs -> Crows, Lever -> Bulldogs, Pick 10/Redpath -> Blues)
- Casboult (hopefully contract offer from Richmond is enough to trigger Band 3 compo, pick 19/20)
- Boekhorst (to Freo for Balic)

In
- Josh Kelly for pick 1/2 (or keep and use on Cameron Rayner)
- Jacob Hopper for pick 19/20
- Pick 10, use on Nick Coffield/James Worpel (midfielders)
- Pick 37, ideally use on Jordan Houlahan (classy goal kicking half forward)
- Harley Balic (for Boekhorst)
- Redpath (part of Gibbs trade)
- Anthony Miles (DFA or trade for low pick)

We lost one current 1s midfielder + 1 fringe player and gain 4 likely 1s players + 1 fringe while improving the age profile of the list. With Cripps, Murphy, Curnow (x2), SPS, Cuningham, Pickett and Fisher we'd suddenly have a midfield. Docherty can resume his place down back along with Byrne's return from injury and we're actually looking like we'd be a contender for finals when the team gels.


In fact, with some top end talent touted for next year, would GWS be interested in our first pick next year instead of this year as a trade for Kelly? We might need to package it with something else to seal the deal but it could allow us to keep our pick#1 this year to select Rayner (who I think perfectly fits our needs), in addition to gaining Kelly, Hopper, Coffield/Worpel, Balic, Houlahan and Miles.

We'd instantly have one of the best midfields in the comp, with genuine competition for spots. I'd back that midfield along with Kreuzer to ease pressure on our under siege backs and they'd be a dream putting the ball lace out to our young forwards.


How?

Kelly is a great addition.
Rayner will need a year or two to adapt...he's not going to do a Judd in his first 2 years IMO....because he's not Judd
Hopper has a way to go, and shows a lot of potential to share the inside job with Cripps, but not immediately. Needs a year or two.
Lose Gibbs and gain top 10 pick for mids who need to be developed before they prove to be of a high standard.
Miles? Geez...I think he may have peaked already. He's not an A Grader.

So we lose an A Grader, and pick up an A Grader...doesn't make our midfield one of the best. It will be a developing midfield group. We still lack depth in the midfield.
I hope I'm wrong, but I feel we need to be adding not subtracting, or our window will be further down the track...which isn't a bad thing, because we can and I assume will continue to build midfield depth beyond the next 2 years.


Miles would just be a depth player, you can almost disregard him but I think he'd be worth having on the list. Rayner is a jet. He'd walk straight into the ones and play a full year, probably at a higher output than SPS this year.

The midfield in order of their likely output for 2018 would be:
- Kelly
- Cripps
- Murphy
- E Curnow
- Hopper
- Cuningham
- Petrevski-Seton
- Rayner
- Balic
- Fisher
- Pickett
- Miles
- Coffield/Worpel
- Polson

It just means that people like Kerridge and Graham who (despite their admirable traits) have demonstrated their limitations will likely spend the majority of their time in the 2s and be replaced by players who will have the requisite skills, athleticism, toughness and game sense to thrive in the AFL. Most of our improvement will just be the benefit of another preseason into our young guys. They certainly won't be peaking in 2018 but they will be on the way up.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Did you ever consider the reason as to why we only kick 10 goals a game is because most of our forward 50 entries are through Casboult


The reason we kick 10 goals per game is we only average about 46 inside 50s per game (second worse in the AFL) and we move the ball forward slower than anyone else. We nearly always play 4 or 5 forwards against 6 defenders so our forwards are hopelessly outnumbered.
Yet Casboult is number 1 in the AFL for contested marks and 12th in the AFL for marks inside 50. In a team that moves the ball quickly, he would have a picnic.

I don't want to keep him but I want us to get fair compensation for him as he's undervalued.


Well no-one other than us valued him at all last year.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Did you ever consider the reason as to why we only kick 10 goals a game is because most of our forward 50 entries are through Casboult


The reason we kick 10 goals per game is we only average about 46 inside 50s per game (second worse in the AFL) and we move the ball forward slower than anyone else. We nearly always play 4 or 5 forwards against 6 defenders so our forwards are hopelessly outnumbered.
Yet Casboult is number 1 in the AFL for contested marks and 12th in the AFL for marks inside 50. In a team that moves the ball quickly, he would have a picnic.

I don't want to keep him but I want us to get fair compensation for him as he's undervalued.
I will grant it he can mark the ball. But you can't in this modern game only have one string to your bow.
The rest of his game is lacking.
Matt Watson was an elite kicker of the ball for length and accuracy he was up there with the very best. Kicking is just as if not more important than contested marks. But with Watson thats where it ended.
I don't see Casboult as any different his marking is brilliant but the rest of his game is very lacking

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Did you ever consider the reason as to why we only kick 10 goals a game is because most of our forward 50 entries are through Casboult


The reason we kick 10 goals per game is we only average about 46 inside 50s per game (second worse in the AFL) and we move the ball forward slower than anyone else. We nearly always play 4 or 5 forwards against 6 defenders so our forwards are hopelessly outnumbered.
Yet Casboult is number 1 in the AFL for contested marks and 12th in the AFL for marks inside 50. In a team that moves the ball quickly, he would have a picnic.

I don't want to keep him but I want us to get fair compensation for him as he's undervalued.


I really do enjoy your posts BV. Bravo. :clap:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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SurreyBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Did you ever consider the reason as to why we only kick 10 goals a game is because most of our forward 50 entries are through Casboult


The reason we kick 10 goals per game is we only average about 46 inside 50s per game (second worse in the AFL) and we move the ball forward slower than anyone else. We nearly always play 4 or 5 forwards against 6 defenders so our forwards are hopelessly outnumbered.
Yet Casboult is number 1 in the AFL for contested marks and 12th in the AFL for marks inside 50. In a team that moves the ball quickly, he would have a picnic.

I don't want to keep him but I want us to get fair compensation for him as he's undervalued.


I really do enjoy your posts BV. Bravo. :clap:

Yep, I agree with BV too.......but if he goes what happens to Sav??


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
muzza wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Did you ever consider the reason as to why we only kick 10 goals a game is because most of our forward 50 entries are through Casboult


The reason we kick 10 goals per game is we only average about 46 inside 50s per game (second worse in the AFL) and we move the ball forward slower than anyone else. We nearly always play 4 or 5 forwards against 6 defenders so our forwards are hopelessly outnumbered.
Yet Casboult is number 1 in the AFL for contested marks and 12th in the AFL for marks inside 50. In a team that moves the ball quickly, he would have a picnic.

I don't want to keep him but I want us to get fair compensation for him as he's undervalued.


I really do enjoy your posts BV. Bravo. :clap:

Yep, I agree with BV too.......but if he goes what happens to Sav??


So we all agree he's a great player so let's move the ball quicker?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:28 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
Crippa wrote:
muzza wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Did you ever consider the reason as to why we only kick 10 goals a game is because most of our forward 50 entries are through Casboult


The reason we kick 10 goals per game is we only average about 46 inside 50s per game (second worse in the AFL) and we move the ball forward slower than anyone else. We nearly always play 4 or 5 forwards against 6 defenders so our forwards are hopelessly outnumbered.
Yet Casboult is number 1 in the AFL for contested marks and 12th in the AFL for marks inside 50. In a team that moves the ball quickly, he would have a picnic.

I don't want to keep him but I want us to get fair compensation for him as he's undervalued.


I really do enjoy your posts BV. Bravo. :clap:

Yep, I agree with BV too.......but if he goes what happens to Sav??


So we all agree he's a great player so let's move the ball quicker?


Who is going to tell BB?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:10 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 pm
Posts: 322
Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/08/10/casboult-worth-every-cent/

Quote:
Casboult worth every cent
By SEN 7 minutes ago

Ralph compared Casboult to Sydney forward Sam Reid who this week signed a four-year deal worth a reported $2 million.

“He’s a better player than Sam Reid,” he said.

“But quite often he goes missing whereas Casboult is a contested marking freak (ranked No. 1 in the competition) and his kicking is better than it was.”

Casboult, who will be 28 prior to the commencement of next season, is understood to want a four-year deal.

Levi's kicking being better is like my putting, I have gone from 5 putting to 4 putting............................. hmmmm that makes my putting pretty ordinary.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
Who is going to tell BB?


Bolton knows. He also knows what happened earlier in the season when we tried to move the ball quicker. Our midfield depth is too easily exposed if we move the ball quickly.
He also knows that if we can't control the tempo of the game and set up to prevent the opposition moving the ball quickly, we get exposed as well. We want the opposition kicking down the line to our extra numbers.The only way at the moment to achieve that is to move the ball slowly and allow our players the opportunity to set up defensively behind every possession.
We have to kick and mark. If we don't take more marks than the opposition, we don't win.

As for Casboult, he has serious deficiencies but without him, this game style won't function. Our forwards are currently battling against 1-4 extra defenders. What chance do we have of Silvagni or Curnow giving us a contested mark or ground ball at those odds? Next to zero.

If we bolster our midfield in 2018 and get another pre-season into our young defenders, they can fend for themselves better next season. Then we can give our forwards a shot at 1 on 1 footy. Until then, Casboult is the workhorse that enables our structure to function without getting beaten by 90 points every second week.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Playing slow ugly footy won't wash with supporters next year. It has to change.


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