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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:52 pm 
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formerly cj69

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jimmae wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
jimmae wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
I hope not! :mad:

If we line up with that in 2016 we have once again wasted another draft and trade period and really are a basketcase.

Not 2 weeks ago you said we need to avoid trading and free agency?


and I haven't changed that opinion. :yikes:

I believe we need to trade for picks and the only trade situation I would trade would be a Docherty type. Talented young kid for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

If we draft properly I would expect a number of those players to be playing in 2016. One because they are talented and two because we are REBUILDING.

I think their output for a season should be viewed within the scope of growth of performance in an 18-24 month period.

You don't play someone based on draft number or age bracket: you play them because they're in the mix and they have tangible upside that will come from being brought up to AFL level. Not every 1st and 2nd year player will bring that.


:donk:

Do actually read what I write?

Where did I base selections on particular ages or draft selections? I would expect that if we recruit 8-10 new kids that a few of them would be playing straight. One because they are good enough and we have selected well and two because we are rebuilding and the faster we get games into kids the better we will be.

Look at Bulldogs and Saints. Names such as Dunstan, Billings, Templeton, Bontempelli, McCrae etc played a lot of football in their first seasons. I would hope we could expect the same.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Ideally they shouldn't be, unless they're out of the box types. Or do you want to promote a culture where people walk into the team on reputation alone?

You've nominated two top 5 picked mids, a senior bodied mid and then the exception in Templeton. I'd rather plan to work incrementally and then be surprised, rather than plan for development to spring up out of nowhere. That you think the grass is always greener on the other side is a huge flaw in your methodology.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:57 pm 
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formerly cj69

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jimmae wrote:
Ideally they shouldn't be, unless they're out of the box types. Or do you want to promote a culture where people walk into the team on reputation alone?


It's called a rebuild and if you recruit not only the right talent but the right people, supported by the right coaching it shouldn't matter. Do you think GWS & WB have suffered as a consequence?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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GWS protected plenty of their kids in the first 2 years? The Bulldogs are choppy with their form and they had a dud coach effectively protecting their youth by playing them sparingly. They're probably 2 years ahead of us right now.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:45 am
Posts: 422
ThePsychologist wrote:
Rabbit wrote:
jimmae wrote:
Rabbit wrote:
We need to give to get and this list clearly isn't cutting it.

We have some currency with Gibbs so if the chance with Adelaide arises we should take it.

The same with Menzel but only for the right trade/pick.

Jamison could be on his last legs so Rowe might be our best option for the time being.

If they want something, let them come to us then.

I'd rather edge our way up the draft order by trading out players who are AFL capable, but are not helpful to us beyond an 18-month window. We've got some rookies who I'd happily elevate now.


Agreed.

I don't think Gibbs is going to give us much so would happily let him go for the right price.

Menzel would hurt more but I worry he could be another Gibbs but that is a bit harsh seeing he hasn't had a good crack yet but for a Motlop and one of their up and coming midfielders I would do it (or an early pick).


Unfortunately I believe guys like Gibbs & Menzel are players you get to finish off your list. IMO they aren't heart and soul players. They are not leaders they are finishers. Both would do really well in a good side where they are the 3rd of 4th mid or forward. That's why I believe we need to trade them and hopefully get something good for them.

It's needs to be about the club not individual players.


Agree 100%


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:28 pm 
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formerly cj69

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jimmae wrote:
GWS protected plenty of their kids in the first 2 years? The Bulldogs are choppy with their form and they had a dud coach effectively protecting their youth by playing them sparingly. They're probably 2 years ahead of us right now.


Of course they are. They started their rebuild 3 years ago. Both have played a lot of kids. Do you really believe a lot on our current list deserve games?

As for Dud coach I don't agree. I believe McCartney to be an excellent development coach. He fast tracked and developed some very good players. It's in game day stuff he struggled. Beveridge has come in and built on what he did.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:25 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:44 am
Posts: 835
Well. Thats that then. Weve hit rock bottom.

18th.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:31 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
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Pick 1 in the PSD might mean more than pick 1 in the draft.

And we're nowhere near rock bottom yet. Imagine 15 more weeks of this. Cause that's what's coming.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:34 pm 
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formerly Fevola

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Em don't get too excited, who are we going to convince to come to us in the PSD? Not many one would think. We will stuff up the picks anyway.


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 Post subject: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:39 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Drewgirl wrote:
Em don't get too excited, who are we going to convince to come to us in the PSD? Not many one would think. We will stuff up the picks anyway.


Players (talented) not wanting to come to us is a blessing. No need to waste picks on quick fixes.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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okay so now they will change the rules - pick 1 goes to the 14th finisher. We get pick 5.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Retire:
Walker
Judd
Carrazzo
Simpson (hope he might go another year)
Jamison (hope he might go another year)

Keepers:
Menzel
Gibbs
Kreuzer
Cripps
Boekhorst
Docherty
Jaksch
Henderson
Bell
Tuohy
Byrne
Everitt (depth)
Curnow (tagger)
Thomas (have to keep)
Casboult (have to keep)
Wood (depth)
White (depth)

Potential Trade:
Murphy
Yarran
Graham

Develop:
Viojo-Rainbow
Buckley
Whiley
Smith
Foster
Walsh
Fields
Byrne
Gowers
Russell
Dick
Sheehan
Jones (have to)
Tutt (have to)

Delist (If show nothing at all by Round 22):
Watson
Rowe
Holman
Armfield
Johnson
Ellard

Delist regardless:
Warnock

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:34 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Drewgirl wrote:
Em don't get too excited, who are we going to convince to come to us in the PSD? Not many one would think. We will stuff up the picks anyway.


Probably take someone like Tutt or Jones. Maybe a Ruckman like Knobel?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:02 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Location: Recovering from the 1st effort
ThePsychologist wrote:
Probably take someone like Tutt or Jones. Maybe a Ruckman like Knobel?


Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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If we got pick 1 would you trade it for 2 top 10 picks ?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17959
dane wrote:
Retire:
Walker


Now, I know some people may think I've been hitting the cones but would it be worth considering putting him forward before retiring him.
Just a crazy thought I know but I believe he performed quite OK last time he played there.

Just putting it out there.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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I was hoping somehow now that Yazz is back if Walker plays this week & Simmo does too, Walker might go forward.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Walker forward is a no brainer.... even for Mick.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Rexy wrote:
If we got pick 1 would you trade it for 2 top 10 picks ?


No.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
dane wrote:
Retire:
Walker


Now, I know some people may think I've been hitting the cones but would it be worth considering putting him forward before retiring him.
Just a crazy thought I know but I believe he performed quite OK last time he played there.

Just putting it out there.


Got the rest of the year before the retirement.
Might play on if he can go forward and make a difference.

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