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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 2:25 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
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CK95 wrote:
kezza wrote:
Thank goodness we won. Having to catch the tram home because of bus replacements on my line would have made the trip much worse. Crammed into a packed tram and taking forever would have sucked if we had lost.



I drove to Coburg & got the train from there

We may do that next time.
Didn't think of it.
Got the 86 tram and it took 2 hours to get home.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 2:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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It's always a trek on the 86 :grin:

I did that after the semi last year then got an Uber from La Trobe. But I was so happy I didn't care

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 3:21 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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we have no team defence how many easy goals have GWS,WBD and now Roos scored


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 4:37 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Location: Nth Fitzroy
Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:


Was it not obvious when TDK went off that North ran away from us on the scoreboard? If not, you weren’t watching. Go watch the replay and listen to commentators. They weren’t BT Brayshaw or Richo. Or better still check the scoreboard ticking over for North. Too obvious to miss.




norf ran away bcos at that moment we were at 153 defensive pressure for the game. mids weren't running hard or pressuring, we were turning it over exiting our back 50 and our defense with durdin was horrible.


North pushed ahead in the first half because we allowed them too much easy territory with their possession.
We refused to apply sufficient pressure to the ball carrier and allowed them to chip the ball up the ground. Centre clearances were 7-7 at half time and hitouts to advantage were actually in our favour.

The obvious discrepancy was uncontested marks and marks. North had 52 uncontested marks to our 24 at half time. We were poor with our zoning and too many players were content to give them space.
We reduced their uncontested marks to 16 in the 3rd quarter by being more accountable to an opponent and forcing them to kick down the line more. Get the ball back into a contest and we minimised their inside 50's and started to give our forwards more opportunities. Hardball gets 10-4 in our favour after being even at half time.
Any team can play well if you let them have the game on their own terms. Pressure and contest as Vossy continually says are our strengths.
If we don't bring them, forget finals success.


Voss says it was because we played too fast. That makes sense. We were fueling the open game which they wanted. When we got it slowed to our desired pace there was less outnumbering in their favour and our defensive shape was able to hold better. That made it easier to apply the pressure we needed to apply .Then it became a tough arm wrestle where we could use our strengths to overpower them and take the 4pts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:30 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10461
club29 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:


Was it not obvious when TDK went off that North ran away from us on the scoreboard? If not, you weren’t watching. Go watch the replay and listen to commentators. They weren’t BT Brayshaw or Richo. Or better still check the scoreboard ticking over for North. Too obvious to miss.




norf ran away bcos at that moment we were at 153 defensive pressure for the game. mids weren't running hard or pressuring, we were turning it over exiting our back 50 and our defense with durdin was horrible.


North pushed ahead in the first half because we allowed them too much easy territory with their possession.
We refused to apply sufficient pressure to the ball carrier and allowed them to chip the ball up the ground. Centre clearances were 7-7 at half time and hitouts to advantage were actually in our favour.

The obvious discrepancy was uncontested marks and marks. North had 52 uncontested marks to our 24 at half time. We were poor with our zoning and too many players were content to give them space.
We reduced their uncontested marks to 16 in the 3rd quarter by being more accountable to an opponent and forcing them to kick down the line more. Get the ball back into a contest and we minimised their inside 50's and started to give our forwards more opportunities. Hardball gets 10-4 in our favour after being even at half time.
Any team can play well if you let them have the game on their own terms. Pressure and contest as Vossy continually says are our strengths.
If we don't bring them, forget finals success.


Voss says it was because we played too fast. That makes sense. We were fueling the open game which they wanted. When we got it slowed to our desired pace there was less outnumbering in their favour and our defensive shape was able to hold better. That made it easier to apply the pressure we needed to apply .Then it became a tough arm wrestle where we could use our strengths to overpower them and take the 4pts.


Correct on all accounts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:51 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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kezza wrote:
I went to the game, take the 4 points and move on.
We clearly are not playing as we were about a month or so ago.
After hearing news about TDK what a courageous effort it was from him.
Carroll played well.
Thank goodness we won. Having to catch the tram home because of bus replacements on my line would have made the trip much worse. Crammed into a packed tram and taking forever would have sucked if we had lost.
Is there an unwritten rule that every time Walsh is tackled he is paid holding the ball against him?


Yes. All damn season. What have they got against him?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:10 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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A pretty frustrating evening at the footy but thankfully we won. Achieved the bare minimum of a win without looking too flash and obviously copped a number of injuries.
TDK was huge to get back out there and I’m not sure we would have won without him.
Cripps was good again and Charlie had his moments in the third quarter. Saad very good too.
Can probably reel off a couple more good players like Weiters but otherwise not much to write home about.
Got to be better going forward.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Fenwick Snap wrote:
kezza wrote:
I went to the game, take the 4 points and move on.
We clearly are not playing as we were about a month or so ago.
After hearing news about TDK what a courageous effort it was from him.
Carroll played well.
Thank goodness we won. Having to catch the tram home because of bus replacements on my line would have made the trip much worse. Crammed into a packed tram and taking forever would have sucked if we had lost.
Is there an unwritten rule that every time Walsh is tackled he is paid holding the ball against him?


Yes. All damn season. What have they got against him?
Probably featured on the DVD when they changed the interpretation mid season.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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To me it seems there is one rule for some teams and then another for others. Some of the free kicks not paid to Cripps/Walsh and Charlie in particular are just ridiculous. It really has become that frustratingly obvious.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
SurreyBlue wrote:
To me it seems there is one rule for some teams and then another for others. Some of the free kicks not paid to Cripps/Walsh and Charlie in particular are just ridiculous. It really has become that frustratingly obvious.
The last 3 goals we kicked all came from very soft free kicks and a 50 metre penalty.
We did ok out of it in the end.
We also won the free kick count 27 to 22

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2024 4:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
bondiblue wrote:
Pros
Happy with 4 points
We found out we are dysfunctional when TDK was off
Have doubts we would’ve won without TDK. Starred.
Motlop arrived. Loved his intensity
Loved the pace of Saad Cincotta Cottrell
Harry is the best CHF in the game
Charlie keeps kicking goals
Weitering held backline together
Carrolls best game for Carlton. Confident.
Pressure in the 3rd. Team effort.
Hewett is one of our best 3 mids

Cripps was BOG

Cons
Lack of pressure for long periods
Durdin ahead of Young. Too slow for AFL.
Charlie’s lack of effort to compete for every ball
TDK going off injured showed how importants a ruck role is
Losing a ruck Rob’s us of a CHF or our most important mid
Short backline exposed. Kemp or Marchy wouldn’t fill that gap
Handballing to players in worse positions
Cripps trying to do too much


If you can’t see the problem with one ruck when sole ruck is injured for the game you never will, so don’t think for a minute I don’t admire TDK cos I do, but I can’t depend on an opposition coach to not aim to hurt TDK to win the game in Finals.

Ridiculous to think I’d gloat about a loss Great Ex, like I said in match thread I pointed out for you that all 5 commentators all agreed we are vulnerable if TDK is out injured when sole ruck, so you don’t have to hear the logic from me. That was unecessary.

I’m happy for TDK to be No 1 ruck and Pitto sub as insurance. I can see how we play when he’s hot and firing as sole ruck. I also know how our structure is ruined if TDK as our sole ruck is off the ground injured for most if not remainder of the game. We all agree we were lucky he returned to the field and played 2nd half because we all felt our vulnerability when he was off. Let’s see if he plays as the sole ruck next week. He is human. His Purple patch was just that imo. If you thought his purple patch was going to last forever at his young age you would buy fools gold for gold too.

Harry went into ruck and his opponent Comden went to forwardline and kicked 3 goals. It was pointed out before he kicked a goal our backline couldn’t match their height ie mismatch. Weitering was on his own. Durdin was not a reliable second fiddle.

Was it not obvious when TDK went off that North ran away from us on the scoreboard? If not, you weren’t watching. Go watch the replay and listen to commentators. They weren’t BT Brayshaw or Richo. Or better still check the scoreboard ticking over for North. Too obvious to miss.

We miss the stature of jones as a KPD. Gov and Kemp are not KPDs as much as you want to believe they are.

We have to wait for Finals to see if Voss goes with 2 rucks or not. I don’t know. But I can see why he would. Can you?

All I have said all along is we play well with sole ruck but if we lose that ruck during the game we are vulnerable and haven’t got the KPDs to withstand the onslaught to come. See against bottom 2 team today. Repeat 17th on the ladder and you think a top 4 wouldn’t do better than them in the same situation?


Pitto as Sub doesn’t fly. injury to any other player than main ruck (say TDK when he’s back) and you have to bring on Pitto for a mid/forward/defender off. that’s hopeless. also doesn’t work as a tactical sub for more speed, more lockdown, more forward power or anything else.

i’m horses for course on one or two rucks for every game. treat the oppo on their merits at the MC selection table.

one player we must identify before trade period is a tall defender, a bit more mobile but taller the Gov and stronger than Kemp to do the second KPD role. if that player can double as a backup/dual ruckman then bonus salary should be on offer.

i agree with @Bondi that taking Harry away from his important CHF role just to wear him out in the ruck for big chunks of the game is problematic with the TDK/Harry combo.

Harry says he enjoys getting on the ball but unless he’s getting monstered by two defenders and not getting his marks then we are wasting one of our best assets forward in the ruck. it also means both their key tall defenders go to Charlie and that will frustrate him at times if the game isn’t on our terms which often it has not been lately.

if we could share Ruck duties three ways with a new key defender who can ruck, Crippa and H in the forward arc then that wouldn’t be so bad as having him do centre sq and D50 rucking.

who are some KPDs out of contract who can pinch hit in the ruck? Lobb? There’d be a few.

i wonder what kind of a CHB TDK would have made in 2024 if we’d gone after Grundy or Tim English like i thought we might at the end of 2023?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2024 4:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
SurreyBlue wrote:
I’ll add, Saad has now developed as a trusted defender. He seems to have not only controlled his erratic running and kicking but more importantly, has worked is ass off on 1v1 defending. So bloody happy with what is now - the Navy Blue Saad.


massively underrated. perhaps due to him missing some big games this season. he’s been central to us not being blown out of the water the last three weeks. tough, smart, backs himself running head on into bodies ing the other way. if Gov and Kemp played to Saads standards they still be too short as a CHB but they’d be much more fearsome.

Saads rundowns are incredible. his manoeuvring out of of traffic nice to watch. and he kicks it long when he has to, low and fast to pin point accuracy when he can.

rarely Flowers Up.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2024 4:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
CK95 wrote:
What was TDK's injury? I was listening to SEN & the only injury they commented on for the whole game was Harry's head knock

Highlight was that Saad breakaway in Q3, was absolutely electric & brought the crowd into the game. Absolute gun & the rest of his game was pretty good too.

Thought TDK was also great in Q3, although the north ruckman is a good player too. Good battle.

Credit to Cotters, worked his way into the game after a slow start.

Thought Ollie had a weird day, some awesome defensive efforts but also some big time obvious mistakes. Should have taken a bounce & run that goal in, in Q4.

And fair play to North, thought they played really well especially their midfield. They gave us a couple of easy goals which we could have been in real trouble without.

Annoying about the short break for port but I hope it isn't even mentioned inside the club. I'd rather Voss absolutely demands we completely dick this mob on Friday. They may have a good midfield but they have serious deficiencies front & back. It's time for us to start concentrating & playing brutal footy over 4 qtrs again, pronto. We need to force our way out of this slump - we're better than this.

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TDK had a deflated lung but not a broken rib (he thought) Cripps said on 360. but his broken foot is going to be the bigger issue medium term. club saying out for the remained of H&A.

that’s a massive loss TBH. where will his form be if we make finals? where will our system be without him switch over to with him and potentially without Pitto, if they go one ruck into finals?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2024 4:58 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
Ghost of PrincesPark wrote:
I'll reiterate: we would be reigning premiers if Owies had played prelim. v Brisbane.

How you leave out the third highest goal scorer for the year still does my effing head in.

When we were wasting forward entries in that 1st quarter he would have drifted into space to capitalise.

Absolutely essential inclusion in our forward line - yesterday proved it again.

3rd highest scorer for Carlton again this year.

Oh, and kicks straight: 26-11

(and only 2 goals less than Lions 'essentials' Charlie Cameron and Eric Hipwood)


Agree. also i was monitoring game on my phone after meditating through the first quarter by accident not realising the opening bounce time!

went somewhere really dumb (not a safe space it turned out!) at start of the second quater and couldn’t extricate myself until early in the third. So i’m putting my hand up for killing the momentum. it won’t happen again. i fully believe we were set to win the Prelim in QLD and then smash the pies at the G for a Premiership of the Ages. oh well it’s only footy.

i’m not buying that “we ran out of petrol tickets” nonsense. neither was Voss BTW. Footy is a subtle game mentally and small shifts in attitude and behaviours can swing the biggest of momentum the other way in a flash. we’ve seen several such games in AFL recently of 7 and 8 goals by one club then the oppo in response.

a great team like Lions with more starts per line than any club, i think, will grab such an opportunity and fight hard to not give it back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:06 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
club29 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:


Was it not obvious when TDK went off that North ran away from us on the scoreboard? If not, you weren’t watching. Go watch the replay and listen to commentators. They weren’t BT Brayshaw or Richo. Or better still check the scoreboard ticking over for North. Too obvious to miss.




norf ran away bcos at that moment we were at 153 defensive pressure for the game. mids weren't running hard or pressuring, we were turning it over exiting our back 50 and our defense with durdin was horrible.


North pushed ahead in the first half because we allowed them too much easy territory with their possession.
We refused to apply sufficient pressure to the ball carrier and allowed them to chip the ball up the ground. Centre clearances were 7-7 at half time and hitouts to advantage were actually in our favour.

The obvious discrepancy was uncontested marks and marks. North had 52 uncontested marks to our 24 at half time. We were poor with our zoning and too many players were content to give them space.
We reduced their uncontested marks to 16 in the 3rd quarter by being more accountable to an opponent and forcing them to kick down the line more. Get the ball back into a contest and we minimised their inside 50's and started to give our forwards more opportunities. Hardball gets 10-4 in our favour after being even at half time.
Any team can play well if you let them have the game on their own terms. Pressure and contest as Vossy continually says are our strengths.
If we don't bring them, forget finals success.


Voss says it was because we played too fast. That makes sense. We were fueling the open game which they wanted. When we got it slowed to our desired pace there was less outnumbering in their favour and our defensive shape was able to hold better. That made it easier to apply the pressure we needed to apply .Then it became a tough arm wrestle where we could use our strengths to overpower them and take the 4pts.


Voss would know but i agree. for three weeks our disposal in transition play has been rubbish by foot and by hand for more than half the play. then we have one qtr where it’s more measured, runners are making more space and there’s less Ping Pong. we need to avoid Ping Pong/ TableTennis styles of games because it suits the younger/faster teams like north.

we must find a way to get composed even under elite level pressure.

FWIW Crippa said on 360 that North’s pressure, mids and whatnot in the middle were seriously up there and doesn’t reflect their position on the ladder.

reaction they and A Clarkson set themselves for us knowing that they bring the heat and they’re half a chance for the win that would be the feather in their development cap of 2024 and keep some players and line coaches in their jobs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:08 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
Fenwick Snap wrote:
kezza wrote:
I went to the game, take the 4 points and move on.
We clearly are not playing as we were about a month or so ago.
After hearing news about TDK what a courageous effort it was from him.
Carroll played well.
Thank goodness we won. Having to catch the tram home because of bus replacements on my line would have made the trip much worse. Crammed into a packed tram and taking forever would have sucked if we had lost.
Is there an unwritten rule that every time Walsh is tackled he is paid holding the ball against him?


Yes. All damn season. What have they got against him?


same thing umpires have against anybody who takes the ball. it’s a lottery. we get some of those too. but yeah Walsh is especially unlucky/disrespected this season by footy gods.


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