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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:55 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Effes wrote:
GWS put a hard tag on Miller - he only had 17 disposals for the game. Went a long way to setting up the win.

Not sure it would be a good idea to go head to head with him. Maybe send Hewett to him.


Hewett has form in shutting down good players.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:57 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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DesEnglish wrote:
Jack Martin is too good not to be playing. While Owies has done nothing wrong I’d be swapping them for next week.

Young stays, thought he looked good first up.


Fisher can’t tackle, that will continue to be a problem. Martin for Fisher if it gets to that.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:12 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blues21 wrote:
I'm really surprised there's been no discussion about Williams. Yes he gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over too often. Stocker will be eyeing hi position in 2 weeks.

Am I the only one who saw him drop his head late in the second qtr, drop the mark which resulted in a goal to teh Hawks? Classic footsteps from my position. It won't have gone unnoticed by Voss in the box.


I absolutely saw this. I sent a message to my mate at the time Williams = Squib. He absolutely heard footsteps and shit himself and it cost us a goal. I have no doubt that he would have been told about it and told to harden up

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:19 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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The Normal One wrote:
Effes wrote:
GWS put a hard tag on Miller - he only had 17 disposals for the game. Went a long way to setting up the win.

Not sure it would be a good idea to go head to head with him. Maybe send Hewett to him.


Hewett has form in shutting down good players.


I think they should both just be let loose shoot-out style... and yes I have them both in super coach :grin:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:18 am 
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Rod Ashman

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I’d still put JSOS in McGoverns role in defence, and bring in Martin.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:13 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Looks like it's going to be very wet. Forecast is showing 10-20mm Friday and Saturday and 20-40mm on gameday.

We looked to tall up forward yesterday and Hawthorn waltzed it out way too easily. Given this and the forecast I reckon we ditch a ruckman and go with JSOS as the relief ruck, or even Young if their tall forwards aren't worrying us. TDK would be the one to go, but Pittonet may be out with the back injury.

We've got enough tall targets up forward with Charlie, Harry, JSOS, and Martin is very strong overhead for his height.

So I'd go with:
Martin for TDK/Pitto
Saad for Boyd
Motlop for Owies
Dow for O'Brien.

I know O'Brien is outside and Dow is inside but I'd be keen to give Dow a go in the role and see how he goes. He will offer more strength in the contest and more speed which we lack. He can also rotate on ball and give Cerra and Walsh spells on the wing

If it is going to be wet must have Dow in place of LOB. Will be a tough game where the players will need to put their bodies on the line. Dow will do this. Can anyone see LOB?


I know you're a real fan of Dow's. I thought he'd be in the best 22 before the praccy games, having heard Diesel's praise of Dow's and LOB's preseason.

I can't see Dow or LOB putting their body on the line. Dow has weapons, but he's too much of a ball watcher. For an inside mid, he doesn't break tackles or hit hard because he isn't the type who enjoys the physical side of the game IMO.

I am a fan of Dow because he has shown regular improvement at his time at the cub where as LOB?

As far as putting his body on the line, he has made his name as an inside mid and a tackler. Speaks for itself.

I do believe both wings are are a weakness of ours, no run and carry. Compare to Melbourne, it needs to be rectified.

We don't know if Dow can play wing until he is given a go in the seniors.


Dow's reputation as an inside mid was during his Under 18's period.
Fact is, he hasn't made the grade in his 5th year on the list. That says more about where he's at for me.

Dow was given a spot on the wing and HF during Teague's reign.
Suggestions were made then that Dow wasn't given a go in his rightful position as an inside midfielder after Dow failed to make an impact in those positions.

LOB has shown improvement. He's been selected after some good form in the 2 praccy games.
Having said that I'm not convinced he's the player we should rely on to handle the physical stuff during Finals.
I'd say the same applies to Dow. Comparing Dow with LOB only highlights where both of these players are at.
No one could deny LOB has better wheels than Dow for the wing role.

Have a look at the reserves game against the Box Hill Hawks (link on Ressies thread, posted by abns). The game was played in slippery conditions with a lot of players slipping and giving and taking hard hits. Dow doesn't feature in this display. Its there to look at.

I wouldn't be disappointed if Dow was selected ahead of LOB, because we need as much evidence as we can get to suggest these guys have the make up to play physical FINALS footy, week in week out. It may happen, but from the evidence in last week's game, I don't think he likes working hard enough. I hope he gets picked and makes a fist of it. We need great wingmen to compliment the game plan; maybe that's the next layer Vossy refers to?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:24 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Our Pick 5 in the 2017 Draft, Sam Petrovski-Seton is one year older than Dow and LOB, and watching him play for Weagles tells me he's a fail for SOS.

Just because he wasa top 10 pick doesn't guarantee success.

I've had this inkling, and I'm still hoping, LOB and Dow are late developers, because after 5 years there's a lot of question marks on them.

We know what they have to offer, but they are taking a long of time to develop into bonafide good AFL players.

Dow played one amazing 1st quarter against the Effedruggies then smashed his nose in friendly fire and Teague didnt give him a chance after that. So, the jury is still out. I haven't written him off, and his Reserves games, despite getting 30 touches haven't shown me he's a class above VFL TBH.

I am hoping they make it next year if not this year.

If he's an inside mid, and pigeon holed as one, then he is going to struggle to get ahead of Cripps Walsh Hewett Kennedy and Cerra, and that's just for the inside role. I just don't think he's a wingman.

I want players to be selected when in peak form and in the position they have been conditioned to play: their right position. Hence I've gone cold on Kemp. He has struggled in his last 2 reserves games.

Anyone else think he should be given the wing role ahead of LOB? I've gone cold on LOB TBH, but I can't see Dow on a wing. I don't think he's got the wheels or game sense to play wing all day.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:44 am 
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Harry Vallence
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The Normal One wrote:
Effes wrote:
GWS put a hard tag on Miller - he only had 17 disposals for the game. Went a long way to setting up the win.

Not sure it would be a good idea to go head to head with him. Maybe send Hewett to him.


Hewett has form in shutting down good players.



If we don't tag Miller after he murdered us last year, we've got rocks in our head.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:15 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:
Our Pick 5 in the 2017 Draft, Sam Petrovski-Seton is one year older than Dow and LOB, and watching him play for Weagles tells me he's a fail for SOS.

Just because he wasa top 10 pick doesn't guarantee success.

I've had this inkling, and I'm still hoping, LOB and Dow are late developers, because after 5 years there's a lot of question marks on them.

We know what they have to offer, but they are taking a long of time to develop into bonafide good AFL players.

Dow played one amazing 1st quarter against the Effedruggies then smashed his nose in friendly fire and Teague didnt give him a chance after that. So, the jury is still out. I haven't written him off, and his Reserves games, despite getting 30 touches haven't shown me he's a class above VFL TBH.

I am hoping they make it next year if not this year.

If he's an inside mid, and pigeon holed as one, then he is going to struggle to get ahead of Cripps Walsh Hewett Kennedy and Cerra, and that's just for the inside role. I just don't think he's a wingman.

I want players to be selected when in peak form and in the position they have been conditioned to play: their right position. Hence I've gone cold on Kemp. He has struggled in his last 2 reserves games.

Anyone else think he should be given the wing role ahead of LOB? I've gone cold on LOB TBH, but I can't see Dow on a wing. I don't think he's got the wheels or game sense to play wing all day.


I think LOB has improved a lot but still has things to work on. He will be better once we find a better balance between attack and defence. If he doesn't keep improving Jack Carroll is the obvious replacement IMO


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:26 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Our Pick 5 in the 2017 Draft, Sam Petrovski-Seton is one year older than Dow and LOB, and watching him play for Weagles tells me he's a fail for SOS.

Just because he wasa top 10 pick doesn't guarantee success.

I've had this inkling, and I'm still hoping, LOB and Dow are late developers, because after 5 years there's a lot of question marks on them.

We know what they have to offer, but they are taking a long of time to develop into bonafide good AFL players.

Dow played one amazing 1st quarter against the Effedruggies then smashed his nose in friendly fire and Teague didnt give him a chance after that. So, the jury is still out. I haven't written him off, and his Reserves games, despite getting 30 touches haven't shown me he's a class above VFL TBH.

I am hoping they make it next year if not this year.

If he's an inside mid, and pigeon holed as one, then he is going to struggle to get ahead of Cripps Walsh Hewett Kennedy and Cerra, and that's just for the inside role. I just don't think he's a wingman.

I want players to be selected when in peak form and in the position they have been conditioned to play: their right position. Hence I've gone cold on Kemp. He has struggled in his last 2 reserves games.

Anyone else think he should be given the wing role ahead of LOB? I've gone cold on LOB TBH, but I can't see Dow on a wing. I don't think he's got the wheels or game sense to play wing all day.


I think LOB has improved a lot but still has things to work on. He will be better once we find a better balance between attack and defence. If he doesn't keep improving Jack Carroll is the obvious replacement IMO


Whilst we are winning there's good reason to allow players to grow into a role and give them a block of games to see if it results in their improvement. If not...like you say...next.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:26 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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This question may have been asked and answered, but any reason Saad can't play the wing role?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:49 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Location: Bendigo
The wing role is never going to be a two-man job with this squad.

At best, we can get it down to four.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:07 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9098
Location: Nth Fitzroy
bondiblue wrote:
Blues21 wrote:
I'm really surprised there's been no discussion about Williams. Yes he gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over too often. Stocker will be eyeing hi position in 2 weeks.

Am I the only one who saw him drop his head late in the second qtr, drop the mark which resulted in a goal to teh Hawks? Classic footsteps from my position. It won't have gone unnoticed by Voss in the box.



That mark that slipped through his hands was painful, but I didn't see him drop his head. I have seen him do it though in the praccy game.

I wasn't happy with his fumbling, but he took the opposition on, gained 0ver 600 metres, more than anyone on the ground including JC, and he changed angles like Doch and saad can do. They are a great mix. Williams is an important part of that group. The backline was under relentless pressure and lets face it, the opposition only scored 11 goals over 120 minutes. Not their fault we kicked it to JC and Sicily ad nauseum.

There's supporters who don't like certain players. That's normal. Williams has a few Carlton supporters who are still dirty with his output in the midfield last year and the size of the pay packet.

Forget the size of his salary. He didn't cost us players or draft picks.

I'd lay serious money on Williams keeping his spot and more money that it wont be Stocker who takes his spot. Williams is a unique player and different to Docherty and Saad and stocker. The mix is fantastic.

I wonder if you think Newman is ahead of Williams in the pecking order. If not, that's whose spot I think Stocker will take...if/when Stocker finds the form to warrant selection.

Williams is a keeper.


His kickouts were good too.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Our Pick 5 in the 2017 Draft, Sam Petrovski-Seton is one year older than Dow and LOB, and watching him play for Weagles tells me he's a fail for SOS.

Just because he wasa top 10 pick doesn't guarantee success.

I've had this inkling, and I'm still hoping, LOB and Dow are late developers, because after 5 years there's a lot of question marks on them.

We know what they have to offer, but they are taking a long of time to develop into bonafide good AFL players.

Dow played one amazing 1st quarter against the Effedruggies then smashed his nose in friendly fire and Teague didnt give him a chance after that. So, the jury is still out. I haven't written him off, and his Reserves games, despite getting 30 touches haven't shown me he's a class above VFL TBH.

I am hoping they make it next year if not this year.

If he's an inside mid, and pigeon holed as one, then he is going to struggle to get ahead of Cripps Walsh Hewett Kennedy and Cerra, and that's just for the inside role. I just don't think he's a wingman.

I want players to be selected when in peak form and in the position they have been conditioned to play: their right position. Hence I've gone cold on Kemp. He has struggled in his last 2 reserves games.

Anyone else think he should be given the wing role ahead of LOB? I've gone cold on LOB TBH, but I can't see Dow on a wing. I don't think he's got the wheels or game sense to play wing all day.


I think LOB has improved a lot but still has things to work on. He will be better once we find a better balance between attack and defence. If he doesn't keep improving Jack Carroll is the obvious replacement IMO


Whilst we are winning there's good reason to allow players to grow into a role and give them a block of games to see if it results in their improvement. If not...like you say...next.


.....and it's so important for our success we have pressure on for spots. Carroll Kemp Cuningham Stocker Motlop Fogarty Dow Philp Honey need to get fit/play well and demand a spot. When they do we will be much better. Just look at what the improvement of Kennedy has done for the side


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:34 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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17th Premiership wrote:
I’d still put JSOS in McGoverns role in defence, and bring in Martin.


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After he just kicked 3 goals and was one of our beat up forward? Nah

Martin in but JSOS stays forward for mine. I’d be more inclined to go with a smaller forward line and drop a ruckman. Two key forwards in Harry and Charlie. Two mobile marking targets who are good at ground level and strong tacklers in Martin and JSOS, two smalls in Durdin and Motlop for mine. Owies unlucky

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:28 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8183
Paddycripps wrote:
jim wrote:
What we want is for Port to beat Melbourne in Adelaide, Geelong to beat Brisbane in Geelong then we beat the GC to move to the top of the ladder!


Make it happen Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:30 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8183
Paddycripps wrote:
Oh hang on did you say Port beat Melb??


No wat I'm tipping them but Port have to come good eventually and it is in Adelaide. So we can only hope...lol.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:32 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:21 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Richmond
club29 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blues21 wrote:
I'm really surprised there's been no discussion about Williams. Yes he gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over too often. Stocker will be eyeing hi position in 2 weeks.

Am I the only one who saw him drop his head late in the second qtr, drop the mark which resulted in a goal to teh Hawks? Classic footsteps from my position. It won't have gone unnoticed by Voss in the box.



That mark that slipped through his hands was painful, but I didn't see him drop his head. I have seen him do it though in the praccy game.

I wasn't happy with his fumbling, but he took the opposition on, gained 0ver 600 metres, more than anyone on the ground including JC, and he changed angles like Doch and saad can do. They are a great mix. Williams is an important part of that group. The backline was under relentless pressure and lets face it, the opposition only scored 11 goals over 120 minutes. Not their fault we kicked it to JC and Sicily ad nauseum.

There's supporters who don't like certain players. That's normal. Williams has a few Carlton supporters who are still dirty with his output in the midfield last year and the size of the pay packet.

Forget the size of his salary. He didn't cost us players or draft picks.

I'd lay serious money on Williams keeping his spot and more money that it wont be Stocker who takes his spot. Williams is a unique player and different to Docherty and Saad and stocker. The mix is fantastic.

I wonder if you think Newman is ahead of Williams in the pecking order. If not, that's whose spot I think Stocker will take...if/when Stocker finds the form to warrant selection.

Williams is a keeper.


His kickouts were good too.


He 100% dropped his head and shit himself. It was an easy mark, he braced for contact and none came.

Stocker wouldn't do that.

These little things are critical in building team ethos. When its your turn to go you go.

Will he get dropped? No. Will it get raised at the reviews this week. Absolutely will.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:14 pm 
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John James
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Blues21 wrote:
club29 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blues21 wrote:
I'm really surprised there's been no discussion about Williams. Yes he gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over too often. Stocker will be eyeing hi position in 2 weeks.

Am I the only one who saw him drop his head late in the second qtr, drop the mark which resulted in a goal to teh Hawks? Classic footsteps from my position. It won't have gone unnoticed by Voss in the box.



That mark that slipped through his hands was painful, but I didn't see him drop his head. I have seen him do it though in the praccy game.

I wasn't happy with his fumbling, but he took the opposition on, gained 0ver 600 metres, more than anyone on the ground including JC, and he changed angles like Doch and saad can do. They are a great mix. Williams is an important part of that group. The backline was under relentless pressure and lets face it, the opposition only scored 11 goals over 120 minutes. Not their fault we kicked it to JC and Sicily ad nauseum.

There's supporters who don't like certain players. That's normal. Williams has a few Carlton supporters who are still dirty with his output in the midfield last year and the size of the pay packet.

Forget the size of his salary. He didn't cost us players or draft picks.

I'd lay serious money on Williams keeping his spot and more money that it wont be Stocker who takes his spot. Williams is a unique player and different to Docherty and Saad and stocker. The mix is fantastic.

I wonder if you think Newman is ahead of Williams in the pecking order. If not, that's whose spot I think Stocker will take...if/when Stocker finds the form to warrant selection.

Williams is a keeper.


His kickouts were good too.


He 100% dropped his head and shit himself. It was an easy mark, he braced for contact and none came.

Stocker wouldn't do that.

These little things are critical in building team ethos. When its your turn to go you go.

Will he get dropped? No. Will it get raised at the reviews this week. Absolutely will.


Williams is just a battler. When we are good, he will not be a regular. I have watched him live this year and not impressed. Lacks poise.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:03 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Our Pick 5 in the 2017 Draft, Sam Petrovski-Seton is one year older than Dow and LOB, and watching him play for Weagles tells me he's a fail for SOS.

Just because he wasa top 10 pick doesn't guarantee success.

I've had this inkling, and I'm still hoping, LOB and Dow are late developers, because after 5 years there's a lot of question marks on them.

We know what they have to offer, but they are taking a long of time to develop into bonafide good AFL players.

Dow played one amazing 1st quarter against the Effedruggies then smashed his nose in friendly fire and Teague didnt give him a chance after that. So, the jury is still out. I haven't written him off, and his Reserves games, despite getting 30 touches haven't shown me he's a class above VFL TBH.

I am hoping they make it next year if not this year.

If he's an inside mid, and pigeon holed as one, then he is going to struggle to get ahead of Cripps Walsh Hewett Kennedy and Cerra, and that's just for the inside role. I just don't think he's a wingman.

I want players to be selected when in peak form and in the position they have been conditioned to play: their right position. Hence I've gone cold on Kemp. He has struggled in his last 2 reserves games.

Anyone else think he should be given the wing role ahead of LOB? I've gone cold on LOB TBH, but I can't see Dow on a wing. I don't think he's got the wheels or game sense to play wing all day.


I think LOB has improved a lot but still has things to work on. He will be better once we find a better balance between attack and defence. If he doesn't keep improving Jack Carroll is the obvious replacement IMO


Whilst we are winning there's good reason to allow players to grow into a role and give them a block of games to see if it results in their improvement. If not...like you say...next.


.....and it's so important for our success we have pressure on for spots. Carroll Kemp Cuningham Stocker Motlop Fogarty Dow Philp Honey need to get fit/play well and demand a spot. When they do we will be much better. Just look at what the improvement of Kennedy has done for the side

Although I push for Dow, any one or two of Dow, Stocker, Carroll, Honey, maybe Cuningham if he ever gets himself fit or Fisher can be given a go on the wing.

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