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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:01 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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DocSherrin wrote:
Sorry G'berg...but that scenario is only going to happen in your wet dreams. And your complaints (Arizona, Daisy, Wood) are positives...not negatives. Mick "The Pensioner" Malthouse and Rob Wiley "E.Coyote" will be re-energised with some footy IQ in the box. I'm buoyant about the future!


Daisy is a positive?

Huge mistake by the club

Has further delayed our rebuilding process


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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:58 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
DocSherrin wrote:
Lastly, play the likes of Graham, Temay, Watson, Johnson. Give them a taste..see how they handle it. It's not about 2014...it's about 2015. Be brave and daring...try something new.


I agree but can't see us doing it. For some reason we avoid this.

Our list is poor, the current players aren't good enough so why don't we play the kids? Makes no sense IMO. We just seem to keep going around in circles.

I would be playing McInnes, Holman, Temay, Graham, Cripps (when fit), Johnson, Watson, Lucas, Wood for the rest of the year. They gain experience and we get a better idea of whether they are up to it.

Seriously, what have we got to lose? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:59 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Id only be playing the kids who deserve a decent shot at it like Graham, Holman and Johnson.
No use wasting our time further on Watson, McInnes, Lucas etc. They ve been tried and tested and they ve FAILED.
Giving away games that aren't really earned doesn't prove anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:04 am 
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formerly cj69

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Dominator_7 wrote:
Id only be playing the kids who deserve a decent shot at it like Graham, Holman and Johnson.
No use wasting our time further on Watson, McInnes, Lucas etc. They ve been tried and tested and they ve FAILED.
Giving away games that aren't really earned doesn't prove anything.


I understand your point but the guys in the side aren't much better.

I think people are being a bit harsh on McInnes. Still young and has struggled to come back from knee injury. Just starting to show his old form again. Given our lack of talent he is worth persisting with IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I still can't see how daisy is a negative.

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:09 am 
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Bruce Doull
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daisy is a negative
holman johnson graham are the positives........


.........

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 Post subject: Re: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:10 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Dominator7 wrote:
I would see what hendo is worth on the market and trade if I could get a top 9 pick. But would not over invest in one draft. Trade someone else the next year too. Not sure who though as we have sweet fa to trade.

Hendo is a brilliant defender
should be playing there along with Gibbs
Walker should be forward and so should Rowe as goid has he has been Hendo was far better


Problem with Hendo is that he is injured.
I wouldn't play him until he is 100% even if that is next year.
Rowe is a key back. Too slow as a forward.
Walker looks cooked at the moment. Maybe going forward might freshen him up a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2645
gerry atric wrote:
Mick is a nasty egotist, who is smart, bitter, holds grudges and places himself above everything, has no commitment to Carlton, only to himself and his legacy. He is a smart ruthless politician whose motivation is about getting back at the pies for pushing him out. It is not beyond the realms of imagination that Mick is playing a long game, counting on the fact that we have sacked our last three coaches in contract, that we won't do that this time, so he has three years to earn himself an extension. If we are terrible this year and play way below our talent, he is still safe for one season. That suits him. He only needs to improve us to an average side next year who with luck might get to the bottom of the 8. Mick looks like a genius, which suits his ego, he gets a two year extension and remains an AFL coach. No good for us, but good for Mick and his ego. And if we see through this and sack him after an improved 2015, he can cast himself as a victim, which he loves. I may be paranoid but it doesn't mean it's not true



one more year of this egomaniac to go hopefully
apparently we couldn't judge him last year, he needed time to settle in :screwy:
well is it time to judge him now? 4-9

port with a pathetic list that no one wanted are flying with immediate impact from a new coach with largely the same list
freo talented but flaky until lyon had significant and consistent improvement from largely the same list
melbourne playing with a greater intensity under a new coach (embarrassing loss) with largely the same list

a good coach can coach anyone

Brisbane, tigers, gws and Melbourne……………..does more need to be said
We got rid of ratten because we could beat a top 4 team.
Well with micky we can’t beat a bottom 4 team
If you still believe in micky and his antics than you must really have hated ratten

for god’s sake didn’t McVeigh’s performance in last year’s final tell you he isn’t up to it

the team is inconsistent............ whose job is that?
The team is soft……...whose job is that?
The players are can’t follow a game plan(?)……...whose job is that?
The players can’t kick ………………………whose job is that?
Why don’t we play the kids………….whose job is that?

What in the name of god has he done in two years?

Not only are we paying him to erode our club for his own selfish and arrogant existence, we are over!@#$%^& paying him. :banghead:


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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Lets shut up shop. Mick is hell bent on destroying us. Lets not give him the satisfaction.

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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I'm too disillusioned to even start thinking of a way out of this mess. I would be happy for "FUMM" to become a bit of a thing for the remainder of the year though... http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/fumm/


Last edited by People's Elbow on Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:29 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:58 pm
Posts: 539
Start preparing for 2015,introduce young players individually and then another 1 we have to see what these kids have.


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 Post subject: Re: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
dane wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Dominator7 wrote:
I would see what hendo is worth on the market and trade if I could get a top 9 pick. But would not over invest in one draft. Trade someone else the next year too. Not sure who though as we have sweet fa to trade.

Hendo is a brilliant defender
should be playing there along with Gibbs
Walker should be forward and so should Rowe as goid has he has been Hendo was far better


Problem with Hendo is that he is injured.
I wouldn't play him until he is 100% even if that is next year.
Rowe is a key back. Too slow as a forward.
Walker looks cooked at the moment. Maybe going forward might freshen him up a bit.



..this is what happens when the list is shite.. ..players that need to rehab, but can 'tough' out a match are asked to play.. ..we have been doing this for years.. ..hendo needs to rest, walker needs to get what surgery he needs and hang the boots up for the year.. ..i'd be looking to give Menzel a rest, not too pleased with us rushing back Curnow either..

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
redback wrote:
gerry atric wrote:
Mick is a nasty egotist, who is smart, bitter, holds grudges and places himself above everything, has no commitment to Carlton, only to himself and his legacy. He is a smart ruthless politician whose motivation is about getting back at the pies for pushing him out. It is not beyond the realms of imagination that Mick is playing a long game, counting on the fact that we have sacked our last three coaches in contract, that we won't do that this time, so he has three years to earn himself an extension. If we are terrible this year and play way below our talent, he is still safe for one season. That suits him. He only needs to improve us to an average side next year who with luck might get to the bottom of the 8. Mick looks like a genius, which suits his ego, he gets a two year extension and remains an AFL coach. No good for us, but good for Mick and his ego. And if we see through this and sack him after an improved 2015, he can cast himself as a victim, which he loves. I may be paranoid but it doesn't mean it's not true



one more year of this egomaniac to go hopefully
apparently we couldn't judge him last year, he needed time to settle in :screwy:
well is it time to judge him now? 4-9

port with a pathetic list that no one wanted are flying with immediate impact from a new coach with largely the same list
freo talented but flaky until lyon had significant and consistent improvement from largely the same list
melbourne playing with a greater intensity under a new coach (embarrassing loss) with largely the same list

a good coach can coach anyone

Brisbane, tigers, gws and Melbourne……………..does more need to be said
We got rid of ratten because we could beat a top 4 team.
Well with micky we can’t beat a bottom 4 team
If you still believe in micky and his antics than you must really have hated ratten

for god’s sake didn’t McVeigh’s performance in last year’s final tell you he isn’t up to it

the team is inconsistent............ whose job is that?
The team is soft……...whose job is that?
The players are can’t follow a game plan(?)……...whose job is that?
The players can’t kick ………………………whose job is that?
Why don’t we play the kids………….whose job is that?

What in the name of god has he done in two years?

Not only are we paying him to erode our club for his own selfish and arrogant existence, we are over!@#$%^& paying him. :banghead:



Port dont have a crap list with nothing coming through over many years of drafting...
One thing they dont have is injuries.. and thats because their list isnt full of a heap of older types...
Older types are more prone to soft muscle injuries..and other injuries.

Because we dont have much young talent in the list .. we are forced to play older types ... and being older types .. they will be more prone to injuries again.

i have to educate people in here about life and footy etc... hard to believe how many of you think about a wide variety of issues.
footy related and otherwise.

its always viewing the obvious...

so my question to you is this...

Who do we have from the last few drafts that can come in and do a job in the main grade.
There are so many flaws in all these blokes... including their tank that how dare u ask them to all come in and play ....

Doing that is a shocker... because the the club will be gutted and laid to examination by everybody...

So far we have tricked people in believing we have guys tucked away in the VFL were not playing....


who would be believe there is nothing.....???

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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even some of u blokes think theres stuff there... untapped potential

weve had this argument a million times.
russell (give him time)
watson
lucas

and all the others....

theyre all going to come good for us

Now its the new wave of draftees.....

Now let me make this perfectly clear... any new coach... first year coach taking over this mess is going to roll up into a ball and cry... the expectation of this club performing will kill him..

the fact we dont even have a base to start the job with our playing list and every facet of the club is akin to any new coach being axe murdered by freddie kreuger mentality...

This will need 5 or 6 years.. and a complete restructure with someone new coming in when we have some kind of skeleton and still need to add flesh onto,,,

This is a mess and make no mistake about that....

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:42 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: In the box.
i dont believe there is any benefit right now of bringing in a rookie coach to this club...
the strain of doing an Atlas will surely sqash him and pretty quickly...
The opportunity to have done that was around 2006/ 2007

The horse has bolted for now....

This is a club in a huge amount of trouble ... touching the list up will be worrying no matter who the coach is....

BUT young coaches wont be able to handle where were going to be over the next 3 seasons at a club like ours...
We dont have that kind of patience.....

and the guys u guys want coming in are not AFL standard....

Watch the games by good teams or up and coming teams and go to the VFL and watch us there....

Youll see what i mean... if you have an open mind...

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
The most important thing we can do is face the 3-5 year pain cycle it takes to build a list.
Last years trading was a pass. Drafting just cross our fingers but I am not convinced
We need to trade the players who have currency for top 25 picks. I think there are 3 players who fit that profile: Walker, Casboult, Warnock and Yarran. (Yarran only if the deal is right because he doesn't have elite disposal and lacks intensity).
We need to give to get and deal with accusastions of disloyalty for the greater good of the club
So Walker for a pick between 17 & 20
Warnock and Casboult either for 2 picks between 20 & 30 or as a package for 1 pick between 13-18.
Yarran for a Pick in between 8 & 13.
The rider in all that our recruiters need to know they can recruit players without deficiencies at these picks. We don't need stars we need players who can kick & run. We need B graders instead of dreaming that a big body will develop the tank to become an A grader. The picks I am suggesting would have netted us Dunstan and Taylor in the last draft.
I am not sure if the " I won't cull the list" was a play on words but I would be a disappointed member if we didn't make major list changes judged not by the number but the quality of the change.


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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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i reckon its time we stop hoping and get to do with smartening ourselves up as a club and supporters if were going to have any chance of steering ourselves through this

this is very tricky for the club at best

in my opinion the club is gone for as long as most of us will be alive
we have conceded way too much time and quality as an organisation
twenty years of crapness means its a long way back from here

the first thing is to not believe any new individual coming on whether player or onfield has a magic wand to fix this....

its going to take till minimum of 2020 and alot of patience from here

we fluffed a perfectly good opportunity to turn this club around... by not understanding whats required to get to the top of the tree.
why?
because were carlton @#$%&! the rest!!!

i think limp through this year.. play kids at some stage but not all at once... and then make the right changes on and off the field
do that again next year and the year after that...
and thats doing most things right ....

But seriously... we have one of the worst tw lists in the AFL going forward in the short term

im expecting bottom 2- bottom 6 for at least 4 years...

when we have turned over enough of the list .. drafted what we need with high quality drafting and developing we can begin to be taken seriously....

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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
I see I have wandered in to TalkingSynbad

Synbad wrote:
in my opinion the club is gone for as long as most of us will be alive
we have conceded way too much time and quality as an organisation
twenty years of crapness means its a long way back from here

the first thing is to not believe any new individual coming on whether player or onfield has a magic wand to fix this....

its going to take till minimum of 2020 and alot of patience from here

we fluffed a perfectly good opportunity to turn this club around... by not understanding whats required to get to the top of the tree.
why?
because were carlton @#$%&! the rest!!!


Agreed.

I am lucky to have been a Carlton supporter since the 1960s. Anyone born since 1990 will experience what Melbourne supporters have ofr the last 50 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I'm at the stage of who gives a flying @#$%&! about this club.


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 Post subject: Re: Now what?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
We are screwed!!! Lets just @#$%&! off to Tassie and get an extra $2 million in our salary cap.

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