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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
DocSherrin wrote:
To be perfectly honest I don't really care about the 2014 season. It's dead.


Has been dead since the Melbourne loss.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
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dane wrote:
redback wrote:
have we learnt nothing.


anyway we've got the king of development and a million dollar coach,

it's not about win lose, its the process

the process of getting an extension

he hasn't got it by losing and blaming everyone else so he might put some effort into trying to win and see how that pans out


:blinded:



by charlatans and false promises


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:33 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
The problem is simple to understand

We have an incompetent, infantile board of rich supporters who jerk themselves off when

1. Judd is available..so WE MUST GET HIM
2. Malthouse is available...SO WE MUST GET HIM
3. We win a game (particularly last year's EF)...SO WE MUST BE SHIT HOT!

Our board are such flower, flowering dumb flowers that winning games does nothing more than stain their jocks with clag, rather than see each game (win or loss) objectively and look at how all the elements are fitting in with their strategic vision (of which they don't have one)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:03 pm
Posts: 4251
Location: Around the Corner
mikkey wrote:
Don't listen to the Doc he is on an absolute bender from one brewery to the next in the US. :-)


This is true. Judging by the Doc's twitter feed, travelling with him would either be the greatest trip of all time or not remembered at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:35 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6923
It's not just about the pick (although its pertinent for mine we end up with a top 6 pick, whether its through ladder position or aggressive recruiting, I don't care)

The difference between now and the last time we talked about tanking is obvious.

Last time there was no other way. We needed to tank. The playing list wasn't going to regenerate by itself. I remember the likes of Akermanis and Koschitzke openly mocking the prospect of coming to us as a club. "I'll go to any club....but Carlton" was a fairly common catchcry come trade week.

We were so bad though, that it created excuses and justification to never deal with the off field issues. The recruiting staff were handicapped. No-one else wanted to be on the board, so these guys deserved credit for sticking their neck out. Pratt and Mathieson could do what they like because "they saved the club". Journos didn't want to question it in case it was over analysing a simple case of a poor football side. Salary cap penalties. Broke club. Playing the kids. Simple article.

Now there's no excuses. We've had the draft picks. We've challenged for a flag. We've turned profits. We've had time and opportunity to democratically elect our board.

The microscope should be on why the recruiting has consistently made the same mistakes. Why our membership levels underachieve. Why there's a lack of supporter sentiment represented on our board. Why there's constant apathy towards supporter engagement and development of talent on and off the field.

Right now the amount of journos that can smell the blood in the water is growing with each loss. Even the ones that can't see which way tide is going are managing to discuss themes and topics of conversation that until recently, were only discussed by the absolute die hard club insiders.

I want Jon Ralph to discuss why Richard Newton and Ryan Trainor have been cut off at the knees before ascending to the presidency.
I want Damien Barrett to ask what's happening with our recruiting team - Luke WIlliams, Graeme Wright, Wayne Hughes' sudden departure
I want Mark Robinson to write about Bootsma, Watson and Lucas. I don't even care that Jon Ralph's effort was inaccurate and generally awful. The microscope is still there.

I won't read it. Sponsors, current and potential alike will though. Opposition clubs will, and the good ones won't miss a beat to publicly crow about how they run theirs better. The AFL may read it and intervene and work with us to ensure we're getting the right people through the right processes. It may finally publicly shame the status quo into rethinking the way we do things, or to get out while they can.

You can't afford a "she'll be right, mentality", when everyone is watching you waiting to see what decision you make.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
The Rhino wrote:
It's not just about the pick (although its pertinent for mine we end up with a top 6 pick, whether its through ladder position or aggressive recruiting, I don't care)

The difference between now and the last time we talked about tanking is obvious.

Last time there was no other way. We needed to tank. The playing list wasn't going to regenerate by itself. I remember the likes of Akermanis and Koschitzke openly mocking the prospect of coming to us as a club. "I'll go to any club....but Carlton" was a fairly common catchcry come trade week.

We were so bad though, that it created excuses and justification to never deal with the off field issues. The recruiting staff were handicapped. No-one else wanted to be on the board, so these guys deserved credit for sticking their neck out. Pratt and Mathieson could do what they like because "they saved the club". Journos didn't want to question it in case it was over analysing a simple case of a poor football side. Salary cap penalties. Broke club. Playing the kids. Simple article.

Now there's no excuses. We've had the draft picks. We've challenged for a flag. We've turned profits. We've had time and opportunity to democratically elect our board.

The microscope should be on why the recruiting has consistently made the same mistakes. Why our membership levels underachieve. Why there's a lack of supporter sentiment represented on our board. Why there's constant apathy towards supporter engagement and development of talent on and off the field.

Right now the amount of journos that can smell the blood in the water is growing with each loss. Even the ones that can't see which way tide is going are managing to discuss themes and topics of conversation that until recently, were only discussed by the absolute die hard club insiders.

I want Jon Ralph to discuss why Richard Newton and Ryan Trainor have been cut off at the knees before ascending to the presidency.
I want Damien Barrett to ask what's happening with our recruiting team - Luke WIlliams, Graeme Wright, Wayne Hughes' sudden departure
I want Mark Robinson to write about Bootsma, Watson and Lucas. I don't even care that Jon Ralph's effort was inaccurate and generally awful. The microscope is still there.

I won't read it. Sponsors, current and potential alike will though. Opposition clubs will, and the good ones won't miss a beat to publicly crow about how they run theirs better. The AFL may read it and intervene and work with us to ensure we're getting the right people through the right processes. It may finally publicly shame the status quo into rethinking the way we do things, or to get out while they can.

You can't afford a "she'll be right, mentality", when everyone is watching you waiting to see what decision you make.


Agree Rhino
When an individual or organisation don't have the emotional intelligence to engage in self regulatory practices (reflect, review, seek feedback etc.), public shame and ridicule is all we have left to bring change.
Bring it on I say!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:05 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2057
The Rhino wrote:
It's not just about the pick (although its pertinent for mine we end up with a top 6 pick, whether its through ladder position or aggressive recruiting, I don't care)

The difference between now and the last time we talked about tanking is obvious.

Last time there was no other way. We needed to tank. The playing list wasn't going to regenerate by itself. I remember the likes of Akermanis and Koschitzke openly mocking the prospect of coming to us as a club. "I'll go to any club....but Carlton" was a fairly common catchcry come trade week.

We were so bad though, that it created excuses and justification to never deal with the off field issues. The recruiting staff were handicapped. No-one else wanted to be on the board, so these guys deserved credit for sticking their neck out. Pratt and Mathieson could do what they like because "they saved the club". Journos didn't want to question it in case it was over analysing a simple case of a poor football side. Salary cap penalties. Broke club. Playing the kids. Simple article.

Now there's no excuses. We've had the draft picks. We've challenged for a flag. We've turned profits. We've had time and opportunity to democratically elect our board.

The microscope should be on why the recruiting has consistently made the same mistakes. Why our membership levels underachieve. Why there's a lack of supporter sentiment represented on our board. Why there's constant apathy towards supporter engagement and development of talent on and off the field.

Right now the amount of journos that can smell the blood in the water is growing with each loss. Even the ones that can't see which way tide is going are managing to discuss themes and topics of conversation that until recently, were only discussed by the absolute die hard club insiders.

I want Jon Ralph to discuss why Richard Newton and Ryan Trainor have been cut off at the knees before ascending to the presidency.
I want Damien Barrett to ask what's happening with our recruiting team - Luke WIlliams, Graeme Wright, Wayne Hughes' sudden departure
I want Mark Robinson to write about Bootsma, Watson and Lucas. I don't even care that Jon Ralph's effort was inaccurate and generally awful. The microscope is still there.

I won't read it. Sponsors, current and potential alike will though. Opposition clubs will, and the good ones won't miss a beat to publicly crow about how they run theirs better. The AFL may read it and intervene and work with us to ensure we're getting the right people through the right processes. It may finally publicly shame the status quo into rethinking the way we do things, or to get out while they can.

You can't afford a "she'll be right, mentality", when everyone is watching you waiting to see what decision you make.


Agree that the off field stuff is vitally important for a successful club

however, our record in the first and second round of the draft over the last 5 - 7 years has been diabolical

our strike rate is bordering on pathetic just looking at those names above (add Hampson, Grigg and Bower to that list)

as a minimum you would have thought that one superstar would have emerged during that period

in our case we recruited players who have added nothing and set us back five years

doesn't matter how good you are off the field with recruiting like that


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:39 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
No one wants to lose and I'm not sure losing helps us. I am actually not sure what needs to happen.

The reason people like Doc and myself subscribe to this theory is because we are looking for something that will wake this club up and address the issues at hand. Anyone of my era who grew up on the success of the 70s and 80s have absolutely hated what the club has done and stood for over the past 10-15 years. This will be our biggest drought in our 150 year history and we don't look like things are changing.

We have a dysfunctional board, extremely poor recruiting & development and pathetic membership numbers for a club that has been seen as one of the "big" clubs of the AFL.

We got Judd, Number One picks, new coaches, Money but nothing has changed. We are still poor in so many areas. We look for hope but it's hard to find. A lot of us now watch with a certain amount of ambivelance these days. Our expectations are low. That is sad but a fact.

Is losing the answer? Hopefully not and I don't believe having a lower pick in the draft is the answer. Hasn't worked before. We need numerous picks in the Top 30s over the next 2-3 years. Not only that we need to use them well.

There are so many things that needs addressing. The hope of people like Doc is that if we really bottom out things will change.

Whatever the results change needs to happens and it needs to happen now. The more we drift from solid effort to solid effort the more the brand of CFC erodes.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
..as bad as things look, we won't bottom out like we did early noughties.... ..I don't think we do the 'big drastic changes' stuff well at all..

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 1:48 pm
Posts: 1556
Location: Under the Earth`s Sun...now.
ThePsychologist wrote:
The more we drift from solid effort to solid effort the more the brand of CFC erodes.


I think solid efforts are a good place to start with us. Our trouble is a good performance like Friday night is commonly followed by a shocker.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:39 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 17216
I'll be delighted with another honorable loss...that way - when you're enticing a player to Carlton over the next 5 months they can perhaps sense how they are a part of things and that the club and coach aren't too far away...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:25 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
We need to win so our players who will be there for the next 5-10 years understand how good it feels to win and how horrible it feels to lose.

We need to win so we can start attracting talent to this club and we are not treated as the leagues basket case by talented players out of contract.

We need to win as tanking has shown that is not an option for instant success.

If you think that with each loss the board are hurting more then I think you are wrong and the people on here hurt more than the board do. The board are too busy organising the big party.

If you think that after each loss this will lead to change then you are wrong again, change is already happening - new coach, new president, new CEO, looking for a new recruiting boss. Change started with Malthouse and has continued on after the Melbourne loss. These losses have only justified the decisions that were made after the Melbourne loss.

We need to build a winning culture.

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It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:35 am 
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Horrie Clover
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:27 pm
Posts: 345
The Rhino wrote:
It's not just about the pick (although its pertinent for mine we end up with a top 6 pick, whether its through ladder position or aggressive recruiting, I don't care)

The difference between now and the last time we talked about tanking is obvious.

Last time there was no other way. We needed to tank. The playing list wasn't going to regenerate by itself. I remember the likes of Akermanis and Koschitzke openly mocking the prospect of coming to us as a club. "I'll go to any club....but Carlton" was a fairly common catchcry come trade week.

We were so bad though, that it created excuses and justification to never deal with the off field issues. The recruiting staff were handicapped. No-one else wanted to be on the board, so these guys deserved credit for sticking their neck out. Pratt and Mathieson could do what they like because "they saved the club". Journos didn't want to question it in case it was over analysing a simple case of a poor football side. Salary cap penalties. Broke club. Playing the kids. Simple article.

Now there's no excuses. We've had the draft picks. We've challenged for a flag. We've turned profits. We've had time and opportunity to democratically elect our board.

The microscope should be on why the recruiting has consistently made the same mistakes. Why our membership levels underachieve. Why there's a lack of supporter sentiment represented on our board. Why there's constant apathy towards supporter engagement and development of talent on and off the field.

Right now the amount of journos that can smell the blood in the water is growing with each loss. Even the ones that can't see which way tide is going are managing to discuss themes and topics of conversation that until recently, were only discussed by the absolute die hard club insiders.

I want Jon Ralph to discuss why Richard Newton and Ryan Trainor have been cut off at the knees before ascending to the presidency.
I want Damien Barrett to ask what's happening with our recruiting team - Luke WIlliams, Graeme Wright, Wayne Hughes' sudden departure
I want Mark Robinson to write about Bootsma, Watson and Lucas. I don't even care that Jon Ralph's effort was inaccurate and generally awful. The microscope is still there.

I won't read it. Sponsors, current and potential alike will though. Opposition clubs will, and the good ones won't miss a beat to publicly crow about how they run theirs better. The AFL may read it and intervene and work with us to ensure we're getting the right people through the right processes. It may finally publicly shame the status quo into rethinking the way we do things, or to get out while they can.

You can't afford a "she'll be right, mentality", when everyone is watching you waiting to see what decision you make.


I'd sooner have a journalist take that one on... but your point stands, we really need someone to apply the torch on us off the field. Not the lazy approach only taken when Mathieson mouths off, but a genuine kick at them when they don't see it coming.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:47 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
DocSherrin wrote:
I'll be delighted with another honorable loss...that way - when you're enticing a player to Carlton over the next 5 months they can perhaps sense how they are a part of things and that the club and coach aren't too far away...


..you do watch us don't you?, a couple more honourable losses, and then our quota is done.. ..fragile weak players will get nervous, and then the poor games will flow, and we will struggle.. ..the reason we still don't truly know ow to win, what it takes to build a winning culture, what is demanded out of everyone, is because there is the sense that winning is ok, just right off this year cos next year we will be better.. ..screw tomorrow, we keep waiting for it but it never comes..

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:43 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 17216
Big Kahuna wrote:
...you do watch us don't you?..


Never sober...and only replayed highlights. But I do have a membership!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
DocSherrin wrote:
Big Kahuna wrote:
...you do watch us don't you?..


Never sober...and only replayed highlights. But I do have a membership!


..we do drive us to drink..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..


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