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Cretylus

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:21 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 7:11 pm
Posts: 3858
Location: Μάνη Ελλάδα

WOW wrote:

Cretylus wrote:

WOW wrote:

Synbad wrote:

captain but not really a captains asshole.

u obviously dont work in a field where u have identify leadership.. do u?

ok tell me
when is the last time judd backed into a pack
or took a scragger off murphy
or stood up for a team mate

he might be a good player but sacrificial acts are not juddy

he cant even kick

kenny hunter coudnt kick by todays standards but he would always make suree hes important shots at goal went through

juddy .. if someone is scragging a team mate.. he wouldnt interfere.. if they scragged him he would go the pressure point

thats not a leader

though he led them to salads

but not to working on their kicking

trust me... you have no idea what youre talking about....

even judd wouldnt agree with u

keep digging a hole for yourself

love how you only refer to him as a good player, he is in fact an all time great, even Kenny Hunter says so

he was identified twice as captain at two different clubs, so obviously he wasn't considered leadership material

how many games has he won off his own boot in clutch moments and willed teams over the line, you've forgotten about last year's Elimination final

hallmark of a leader I would have thought

keep rewriting history and your own warped view of the world, that's right you think Gibbs is our best midfielder

and by the way did you know he is also a premiership captain

You make some very poor and ill informed points that don't help your argument

Judd was a premiership captain, because COUSINS fell over with his problems - remember?

And you think we won last years elimination final because Judd flicked a switch in the second half??

What do you expect Kenny Hunter to say in public?

I find it very difficult to rank Judd in my top 15 all time great carlton players.

That doesn't mean he isn't a great player, because he is, and we as a club have been blessed with some of the greatest players the game has seen...

Speaking of Kenny HUnter, I would rank him higher than Judd as a player. fearless and provided me with far more joy at carlton games. So did Peter Dean by the way.....

Judd reminds me of Ivan Lendel - fantastic tennis player, but most people would choose, Borg, McEnroe, Edberg, Sampras to play for their lives (as long as its not on Clay in the French open)

are you for real, you make no sense

I loved him as a player but to say that Kenny Hunter was a greater player than Chris Judd is bordering on delusional, particular considering what Judd produced in the years 2004-06 and 2008-11

your tennis analogy is bizarre

I can only suggest you read several threads on who posters in here rank as their best carlton players they have seen. And Judd only sneaks into a few lists. There is no shame in that, seeing as the Blues are blessed with talent.

check out the lists, Hunter pops up in a few lists too

Its just an opinion though isn't it WOW?

If I say that I rank Hunter higher than Judd, then that is what I say.

It's delusional to think that your opinion is somehow a universal standard that all must abide by...

I gather that you are not a fan of tennis?

Ivan Lendl is a perfect example of the type of sportsman Judd is - but then again that is an opinion,

that's why we have forums remember? To express opinions....

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Synbad

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:32 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

i wanna know what a leader is according to WOW

and why Judd didnt want to be captain and doesnt want to be captain....Leaders lead...

is juddy even in our leadership group???

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Cretylus

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:49 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 7:11 pm
Posts: 3858
Location: Μάνη Ελλάδα

Synbad wrote:

i wanna know what a leader is according to WOW

and why Judd didnt want to be captain and doesnt want to be captain....Leaders lead...

is juddy even in our leadership group???

Superb questions Mr S...

I doubt that many football observers and analysts rank Judd's leadership skills....

And as you point out, I doubt Judd ranks himself highly as a captain...

that's OK, Gary Abblett Snr, was a poor training model, was disinterested in leadership on and off the field, but was still a champion and the first picked in the team, match winner....

Lets not artificially elevate Judd in the leadership potential...

Its not even a criticism, its just a reality - a fact about what sort of person and sportsman Judd is...

We can find a few things wrong with Hodge, McVeigh and Selwood as well, but they are not related to courage, leadership and integrity out on the field of battle....

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Wojee

Post subject: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:52 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am
Posts: 35135

Wangers wrote:

Another incident was when ashby, a first gamer for the bummers, got in the face of our captain, with little retribution. A FIRST GAMER did that to our captain, and he lets it fly.

This illustrates the reputation for being a pack of soft introverts that this team has earned. The first gamer would've had it drummed into him by his teammates that Carlton are a pack of marshmallows who will meekly accept anything dished out to them. No respect, no fear.

You'd never see a first gamer trying that on with a senior player at another club, let alone the captain.

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Synbad

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:54 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

if juddy really felt he was leadership material... he wouldnt move away from being in the leadership group ....

obviously he doesnt wanna be there... and if u dont even wanna be in the leadership group how can u possibly be a true leader???

I dunno... think WOW should explain what he means by leadership.....

captain we know... its on paper.
leadership.. well thats more complex.....

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Sugarcane

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:00 pm

formerly Virgin Blue

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:40 am
Posts: 1628

Judd was tired of all the boring shit that came from being captain, all the meetings, disciplining players, meeting stakeholders etc etc
I heard that over a year ago from people who know him, and he said as much on TV on the weekend
He is enjoying more the football pure side of things, spending time with the young players ... as opposed to meeting some dick who just won a prize in a Carlton raffle

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Synbad

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:01 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Bruce Doull was a better player than Chris Judd... never won a brownlow.. never captained a flag.
He wasnt capyaincy material.. but he was a great defensive leader.
As good as Bruce Doull was as a player.. he would never have been considered as captain.
Even though he was a magnificent defence leader.
Why? because his skills were organisational and talent driven...probably the best player i have seen with jezza

but that doesnt make him a great captain leadership wise.

Juddy is not a great communicator... he can play the game but he he is hardly an inspiring personality.
He isnt a sacrificial kind of leader...
when he hot scragged he went berserk
when murphy was scragged he wouldnt vcome off his line to knock murphys bloke off a meter or two to make sure murph had daylight

the end result is the goddard / buckley scenario

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Synbad

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:06 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Sugarcane wrote:

"tired of the boring shit of being captain"

Now that is leadership....

"enjoying the more football pure side of things... spending time with young players.... as opposed to meeting some dick who just won a prize in the Carlton raffle.."

says it all doesnt it..?
he picks and chooses what JUDD wants to do.....

leadership.... :screwy:

thanks for that Sugarcane.... really interesting insight into a captain....and why were so selfish and dont connect with people.

Thats a great captain..... enough said...

Murph was his understudy right?
He learnt leadership from that....

yup yup

you can see why we dont have any leaders...
(
i reckon hidgy has more raffle blokes and people he has to meet as a (2 times ??)premiership capt.
compared to juddys eliminational finals win and 45,000 members at a club that has no connect with its members and is treading water.

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Cretylus

Post subject: Re: Leadership

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:19 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 7:11 pm
Posts: 3858
Location: Μάνη Ελλάδα

you only need to look at Abblett junior when he went up to the Gold Coast...

Not a natural leader but learnt from the best club in town whilst at the cats - and had two premiership medals in his bag. He is still sub par as a skipper, but his experience with the cats at least taught him what TO DO, even if it didn't come natural to him...he has certainly grown into the role at the Gold Coast....Lets hope he doesn't hang on too long and allows one of the young guns to take over the reigns soon. That would be great for the team going forward

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