AGM 17 December – Ruffy Geminder pops in (see p8)

JohnM · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:47 pm

I work in the advertising industry.
I work with many of Australia's best marketers.
Every day, we work at modifying the behaviours and purchasing habits of Australia's consumers.
And I can tell you it is both a science, and an art.
It works.

So it scares the shit out of me to hear a board member admit that they're mystified as to why they can't get more Carlton supporters to sign up as members. Actually that's not the way they frame it: they seem to think that the onus is on the Carlton supporter, and they're mystified as to why more don't become members.

The board should be mystified as to why the club's executive isn't competent enough to entice Carlton supporters to sign up. Stephen and Board: you're looking in the wrong place. The answer is much closer to home.

The club is as far removed from being the kind of customer-centric organisation that attracts consumer dollars, as it could possibly be. You are nowhere near it.

It's not the supporters. We're no more or less apathetic than Hawthorn or Collingwood supporters. It's just that those clubs try to put the supporter at the centre of things. Carlton keeps its supporters at arm's length, as an afterthought to your operations.

Businesses that do this, and rely on consumer sentiment for growth, are doomed.

Can you PLEASE find a serious marketing professional... and a CEO of a business that relies on consumer sentiment for its growth (ie, not bankers and lawyers) and get them on the board please? Think CMO's of FMCG's... not owners of family businesses, etc.

This is embarrassing.

Warby · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:43 pm

bluegirl72 wrote:

Stephen M wrote:

RickJ wrote:

The default position for ALL memberships should be "opt out" rather than "opt in". That is, memberships should not need to be actively renewed every year. They should automatically be renewed via direct debit unless the member actively chooses to cancel or change their membership. I suspect a lot of drop-outs are due to passive neglect or because members are given a chance to think about and act on renewal before they do. Many businesses eg Health Clubs, Foxtel etc operate on this principle.

All full members including long distance members should automatically be granted voting rights, and not have to go through the obstructive process of registering to vote. This says to the member I AM CARLTON. Almost no-one buys a membership to save money at the gate or get a cap and scarf. It is an emotional commitment of belonging (and to get finals tickets when we are there), not because we want to save money. As a result the club needs to make members feel they are really part of the club and are valued.

Higher level memberships beyond Captains Club should be actively offered and promoted, with offers to join existing or new coterie groups. Don't think I've ever seen these offered. Suspect plenty would be interested.

A full time move to the MCG should be sought. This will have multiple flow on effects for expanding membership and game attendances and participation in game day functions. Almost all of us loathe Etihad, almost all love the MCG for a whole host of reasons.

Under the new system, there is no longer a process of having to be "registered" to vote. The new membership application form provides the necessary consent in terms of liability in the event of a winding up (to $50) and once a person pays for their membership or agrees to do so by instalments, that person is a registered member and entitled to vote if they become at least an 11 game member. A direct debit arrangement has been in place for at least the last year so hopefully this will result in a greater number of automatic renewals. Otherwise, it has always been a mystery as to why our membership renewals are so far behind other clubs. Personally, i think there is a view that "all will be right" because we are a wealthy club with many wealthy benefactors - which is far from the case. For some reason, we seem to have many apathetic supporters who don't purchase memberships. I well accept that there are also aggrieved supporters who won't take out membership for principle reasons, such as is the case with some long distance supporters.

Hi Stephen.
I agree with everything Grro has said. About the interstate voting & the stupid ill fitting caps.
Most of all though, your post just affirms what many of us already think or know.
You guys are out of touch. You have no clue why we don't have more members, and worse, that old Carlton arrogance comes through in the way you blame 'apathetic supporters'. Really?
That's no way to talk to the life blood of the club now is it?
If people feel disenfranchised, and excluded, maybe it's because the club gives out the message that only wealthy benefactors are important. We're not apathetic. We follow the club despite its wretched attitude toward it's own members, it's crappy treatment of long term volunteers, and it's own staff.
We overlook the under performing and over serviced board room group, and a president who keeps telling us we've voted him in, when we haven't had a chance to vote for him until now.

You have a lot of work to do, if you want to really make everybody I AM CARLTON. Right now, that slogan is just a joke to many. We used to feel a part of this club. If you need the every day fans, and the Interstaters, then come down off your bloody high horses, get out of the Corporate boxes, and make the regular members feel like it's their club again. for real!!! geez.

Great post bg...... :clap:

Drewgirl · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm **Posts:** 4769

Why dont supporters sign up ? We have a circus of a board, who waste money on payouts. Sign coaches and players up long term contracts that are not warranted.

They are not in touch with supporters , or members. Case in point the membership changes this year and the lack of proper explanation for re-zoning of memberships.

Lack of imagination and participation in bettering the list. Some of you might argue otherwise, but point I am making is how can we be close to the cap with this underperforming list ? Gross contract management is how........

Lack of Communication in terms of player contracts, ie how long did Mitchell and other younger players sign for ?. Now that the Arizona trip is finished when do we go back to training ? Hardly any info on Arizona trip over the last week either.

Lack of proper explanation on our loss this year, they come out an sugercoat everything instead of taking responsibility.

I can go on for ages.

By the way, I will always be a member, but does not mean I have not lost respect for this club.

camel · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:03 pm

Great to read your contributions Stephen. Thank you. I wish this format of discussion (on TC or elsewhere) was more regular. :beer:

Stephen M wrote:

...Otherwise, it has always been a mystery as to why our membership renewals are so far behind other clubs. Personally, i think there is a view that "all will be right" because we are a wealthy club with many wealthy benefactors - which is far from the case...

Perception is reality.

Perhaps the average member/supporter/wider footy community thinks we’re a wealthy club because there is a perception that if it’s not the Pratt dynasty pulling the strings, then it’s Bruce Mathieson. Welcome and worthy contributors, of course, but they do bring their own pitfalls.

Rushing in board members from the corporate elite would also contribute to that wealthy perception too. Again, this is not to suggest these are ill-fated moves, but when the members have been given less than zero input into those decisions, of course there’s a disconnect between the board and lapsed/potential/current members.

We're people too y'know.

Worse, the board changes of late have mostly been reported after the fact, there’s been no plan communicated to the membership as to what the board is hoping to address with these must-have appointees. In the case of Ryan Trainor, my understanding is that he was talked out of running for election last year (?) on the promise of being ushered in this year. From what I can tell he’ll be a worthy addition, but I’d still like to have had the right to exercise my right to vote.

After all, that’s not too much to ask in return for my 11 game “home” membership here in Canberra is it?

camel · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:08 pm

In addition, I actually don't have a huge problem with the 11 game membership right to vote stance. But it's the apparent lack of respect and quick dismissal of non-Melbourne based members which I find offensive.

A member shouldn't be punished because they don't see value in a membership that they will never get any use from. I only continue to buy the 11 game membership because I have a stupid Carlton switch like grrofunger.

And I thought we were supposed to have an apathetic supporter base!

:hitcomputer:

"Gee, I wonder why don't we have more members?"

Well, duh! :lol:

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23921

Hi again Stephen.

You've had quite a bit of feed back, and none of it is apathetic. :grin:

It would be great to hear if you've taken our pov's on board, and if you will pass them on.

If I tried to sum up, all these fabulous and passionate posts to you and the board,
I'd say that we continue to support and love our club despite the current governance of it.

Remember, it is a privilege, and not a right that board members have, and if you have that respectful attitude, then maybe the membership dept will feel it too, and communication will improve..and on it goes.

thanks for listening.

Ockham's Razor · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:27 pm **Posts:** 1689

Stephen

Thanks for visiting and posting.

We are fortunate that you take an interest and also the time to give us your thoughts.

I think you are correct re the apathy of supporters - however, Blues supporters are no more or less apathetic than other clubs. Those on here are rusted on for life members, so I don't take offence at your comments - we on TC clearly aren't apathetic.

I believe that the board needs to listen to, consider and take on many of the suggestions and ideas of passionate Blues supporters (such as TC posters) because we care as much for the club as the board does. Many supports happily tow the club line, others challenge and suggest ideas and change - sometimes these ideas for change should be embraced.

In my view the club has done well to drag itself up from the depths it was in. I would have loved success too, however, acknowledge the effort that has gone into rebuilding the Blues over the past few years. I look forward to imminent success, and when it arrives ALL involved in achieving it deserve to feel proud.

There is no doubt that many members feel disenfranchised from the club. This, & communications from the club need to improve so that we feel included and are treated as a core part of the Blues.

Cheers and thanks again for taking the time to post.

OR

Bluey44 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:40 pm

I would like a category of membership above general admission - maybe called something like "Blue Zone" membership.

I prefer to get general admission, with no individual seat, but I would like access to a general reserved bay that Carlton members can access, rather than having to settle for nosebleed seats, battling every bandwagon collingwood supporter who just got their centrelink cheque.

Or always having to buy upgrades during big games and trying to navigate the nightmarishly confusing Ticketek/ticketmaster seat release policies.

This new class of membership would be similar to the reserved area in level 3 at Etihad that used to exist for Carlton members.
I'd be willing to pay a small premium to get that back.

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:51 pm

Keep in mind that Stephen is one of the board members who stepped aside this year (still contributes in many ways though Im sure).

Hopefully he won't passing on feedback to the current board and administration though.

CK95 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:16 pm

The Rhino wrote:

What info are you after about Arizona? It's GDP? What were the in flight movies?

Actually I kind of did want to know the in flight movies. :oops:

AGRO · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:34 pm

CK95 wrote:

The Rhino wrote:

What info are you after about Arizona? It's GDP? What were the in flight movies?

Actually I kind of did want to know the in flight movies. :oops:

Twister and Jumanji.

kennyhunter · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:35 pm **Posts:** 2432

Kenny was a naughty boy last season and didn't renew for the first time in god knows how long.
Meant to but never got around to it and then became increasingly disillusioned with direction of the club.
But heard nothing from the club. No call or email asking if I wanted to renew membership or questioning why I hadn't. If they had I would have signed up straight away. And there's four memberships inKenny's clan.
But for the past 2 yrs or so I still keep getting periodic emails from membership dept thanking me for contacting membership and my inquiry would be dealt with. My query from back then was never answered ... but keep getting emails.

Lowey_47 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:37 am

I got my propaganda from the famous five after I had already voted. Says it all really...

AGRO · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:56 am

kennyhunter wrote:

Kenny was a naughty boy last season and didn't renew for the first time in god knows how long.
Meant to but never got around to it and then became increasingly disillusioned with direction of the club.
But heard nothing from the club. No call or email asking if I wanted to renew membership or questioning why I hadn't. If they had I would have signed up straight away. And there's four memberships inKenny's clan.
But for the past 2 yrs or so I still keep getting periodic emails from membership dept thanking me for contacting membership and my inquiry would be dealt with. My query from back then was never answered ... but keep getting emails.

Bet you got a phone call asking you to buy a $200 raffle ticket. :wink:

The Normal One · **Joined:** Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 20076

AGRO wrote:

kennyhunter wrote:

Kenny was a naughty boy last season and didn't renew for the first time in god knows how long.
Meant to but never got around to it and then became increasingly disillusioned with direction of the club.
But heard nothing from the club. No call or email asking if I wanted to renew membership or questioning why I hadn't. If they had I would have signed up straight away. And there's four memberships inKenny's clan.
But for the past 2 yrs or so I still keep getting periodic emails from membership dept thanking me for contacting membership and my inquiry would be dealt with. My query from back then was never answered ... but keep getting emails.

Bet you got a phone call asking you to buy a $200 raffle ticket. :wink:

I had 4 of those over the season.

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

King Kenny wrote:

AGRO wrote:

kennyhunter wrote:

Kenny was a naughty boy last season and didn't renew for the first time in god knows how long.
Meant to but never got around to it and then became increasingly disillusioned with direction of the club.
But heard nothing from the club. No call or email asking if I wanted to renew membership or questioning why I hadn't. If they had I would have signed up straight away. And there's four memberships inKenny's clan.
But for the past 2 yrs or so I still keep getting periodic emails from membership dept thanking me for contacting membership and my inquiry would be dealt with. My query from back then was never answered ... but keep getting emails.

Bet you got a phone call asking you to buy a $200 raffle ticket. :wink:

I had 4 of those over the season.

I got one.
No phone call about the membership I didn't renew (only renewed 2 of our usual 3 for season 2012).

Bozman · **Joined:** Mon May 09, 2005 11:11 am **Posts:** 344

Bozman wrote:

Can I just say that I think that the "total"membership figures are very rubbery. What counts as a member? I think it can include someone who buys a 2-3 game membership, or even less if interstate. I think it is very open to abuse.

Lets look at some other indicators.

In terms of attendance at home games - Carlton is third on average, behind cwood, and just behind Essendon*. Hawthorn, who supposedly has 60K members, averages only 34K people at home games. If you look at all reg season games - carlton is ahead of hawthorn by over 3000 persons, and richmond by 4000.

Lets look at afl members with club support packages - something that cannot be manipulated - carlton has 7151 of these - this is the 2nd most - it is 500 more than Essendon*, hawthorn only has 3584 and richmond has 4324. This is even though carlton plays a lot of games at etihad.

I really think that clubs manipulate their total membership for marketing reasons, but if someone actually worked out how many real and actual members teams had, rather than token ones - i reckon carlton would be ranked 2 or 3.

The figures above would suggest that there are a lot of people "called" members who dont turn up to a game - do they exist?? who knows!! Whats stopping a sponsor saying instead of giving you 500k, i will buy memberhsip for all my employees so that the club looks more successful and maybe more sponsors will come on board....

Just my two cents.

All this talk about membership numbers - but can anyone explain the dsicrepancies above? SHould we make such a big deal of the "rubbery" total membership figures?

NTBlue · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:01 pm

I have provided some suggestions re Interstate memberships for the past two years via the members survey.

I suggested that there were a number of interstate members that I was aware of that were prepared to pay for a higher category of Interstate/Long distance membership, such as a Gold Interstate. I know a few members from NT who pay for a regular Gold Membership just to support the club but they hardly ever get to a game (maybe one or two every couple of years. I suggested that a Long Distance/Interstate Gold membership that included some incentive - such as entry to a corporate box or coterie once or twice a year instead of entry to the game for all home games, would be attractive to many.

I have never received any response.

Robert Heatley · **Joined:** Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:04 pm **Posts:** 615

King Kenny wrote:

AGRO wrote:

kennyhunter wrote:

Kenny was a naughty boy last season and didn't renew for the first time in god knows how long.
Meant to but never got around to it and then became increasingly disillusioned with direction of the club.
But heard nothing from the club. No call or email asking if I wanted to renew membership or questioning why I hadn't. If they had I would have signed up straight away. And there's four memberships inKenny's clan.
But for the past 2 yrs or so I still keep getting periodic emails from membership dept thanking me for contacting membership and my inquiry would be dealt with. My query from back then was never answered ... but keep getting emails.

Bet you got a phone call asking you to buy a $200 raffle ticket. :wink:

I had 4 of those over the season.

Not a chance of buying a $200 raffle ticket. If they sent me 10 @ $2 each, I'd buy them all and send it straight back.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:24 pm

JohnM wrote:

I work in the advertising industry.
I work with many of Australia's best marketers.
Every day, we work at modifying the behaviours and purchasing habits of Australia's consumers.
And I can tell you it is both a science, and an art.
It works.

So it scares the shit out of me to hear a board member admit that they're mystified as to why they can't get more Carlton supporters to sign up as members. Actually that's not the way they frame it: they seem to think that the onus is on the Carlton supporter, and they're mystified as to why more don't become members.

The board should be mystified as to why the club's executive isn't competent enough to entice Carlton supporters to sign up. Stephen and Board: you're looking in the wrong place. The answer is much closer to home.

The club is as far removed from being the kind of customer-centric organisation that attracts consumer dollars, as it could possibly be. You are nowhere near it.

It's not the supporters. We're no more or less apathetic than Hawthorn or Collingwood supporters. It's just that those clubs try to put the supporter at the centre of things. Carlton keeps its supporters at arm's length, as an afterthought to your operations.

Businesses that do this, and rely on consumer sentiment for growth, are doomed.

Can you PLEASE find a serious marketing professional... and a CEO of a business that relies on consumer sentiment for its growth (ie, not bankers and lawyers) and get them on the board please? Think CMO's of FMCG's... not owners of family businesses, etc.

This is embarrassing.

I'm with you JohnM.

Ive shown this post to a few Advertsing execs and whilst non Carlton and in 2 cases non AFL, they agree this is a fantastic post and great advice to CFC Board.

They just don't get it.

It's about Moving Hearts and Minds, and not about taking the regular members who will renew every year for granted and wondering why many don't renew...1000's of them every year...for good reason, and usually based on Principles and not on apathy or forgetfulness.

AGM 17 December – Ruffy Geminder pops in (see p8)

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