Agree with this. We mock Richmond supporters, but we just as bad. At least Richmond supporters, despite their team's lack of success over three decades, sign up for their memberships and go to games instead of whinging and complaining about everything that isn't absolutely perfect...

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Keogh can fight his own battles, but I'm pretty sure he's talking about the way things ARE (in his opinion) rather than the way they SHOULD BE.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

You've lost me there. Things ARE as "they should be"
I'm talking about list composition and as a minimum, the natural improvement of young players.
Our players are at the ideal age and level of experience. Its the reality. The facts are, we had been on a steady line of improvement for the previous 4 years. At a higher rate than most other teams.
Last years performance is purely and simply due to injuries and the resultant lack of confidence that comes with it.

Unless we have a repeat of the injury disasters of 2012, we have no excuses IMO. We should be looking at a finals win as a minimum to break even.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I reckon as long as we beat Gold Coast, we've improved. That'll do me. Unless of course we have 2 or 3 minor injuries, in which case it's fair to say they should smash us again.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

lol

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#DonTheStash

I'm not really following the doom and gloom.

We've played finals three out of four years and improved our list and coaching set up in the last 12 months.

We won't win every game this year but given a fair run without too many injuries we should win 2-3 more than last year at the minimum.

Which is finals.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Where's the Cup.........?


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

That's where we differ.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Fair enough. What are the reasons?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

You should see a doctor about all that clap, Surrey.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

Hmmm...the obligatory 18!

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#DonTheStash

If injuries were the only problem, why did we sack the coach?

I'm maybe not as extreme as keogh, but I am concerned about this group's capacity to go to the next level (ie. top 4). I reckon we have signigficant worries at both ends of the ground and our midfield balance & depth isn't what it needs to be. I also worry about the mental strength of some of our players. Malthouse has quite a bit to work with, but I think it's going to take a classic "1 step backwards to go 2 steps forward" approach over the next year or so.

It's not quite 1991 (I think we're a bit better than we were back then), but I do see it a bit like when Parkin came in turned the list over and spent basically a whole season finding out about the playing group and how the football department was running - he made lots of changes and we won less games than the year before he arrived....but we played in a GF within 2 years and won a flag inside 4 years.

I think MM has realised that it's going to take at least half a season to get us playing the way he wants. I would not be surprised if we are near the bottom of the ladder after 6 rounds - and history tells us that you struggle to make the finals if you're not in the 8 by late May. I expect us to improve as the year goes on, and we'll make a late charge and might even sneak into the finals. In any event, by the end of the year MM will have worked out who he wants, and who he doesn't want, as part of his plans going forward. I expect we'll be much more active in next year's trade period as MM tries to mould the list to suit his game style etc. He may make some hard decisions on some established players along the way...

Obviously, I would love it to all come together straight away and win the flag. Of course I bloody would!! Hey, maybe it will? But as we approach Round 1, I just cannot see it happening like that unfortunately.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

That post was

I agree wholeheartedly with the "above the shoulders" comment as well. My biggest concern with this group over the past few years.
However, I believe someone of Malthouses experience and standing should have no issue addressing it. That is the reason we pay him the big bucks.

He should be able to address it, but my point is that one summer is not enough time. It's a bigger job than most think. I reckon we'll need to be patient in 2013.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Because we have a weak, reactive board and an impatient supporter group.



I dont agree. Thats not a reasonable assessment based on any factual data ABNS. Its a "vibe" about our capacity to go the next level. Have a look at who missed games for us last year and how many.
At a guess I'd suggest Murphy, Judd, Carrazzo, Jamison, Henderson, Waite, Kruezer, Hampson, Walker, Warnock, Laidler, Yarran and Simpson all missed at least half a dozen games or were playing lame. The backbone of our side. Then throw in last years depth players Casboult, Rowe, McInnes, Ellard, Curnow, White, Davies, O'Keefe etc. The lack of personnel and the resultant loss of confidence saw us drop away.
As for our significant worries at either end, our key position stocks are superior compared to 2 years ago IMO. Hendo has the ability to become a high quality CHB, Jamo is quality if he stats fit and White and Rowe are very good back up for either end of the ground. Levi offers us something we havent had for a dozen years (A contested marking option) and Hammer creates plenty of ground balls and hits the packs hard. Coupled with an average contribution from Waite (10 - 12 games a year) its better than anything we had when we finished top 6 in 2010 and 2011 IMO. Murphy is a far superior player and Gibbs is much improved at winning the contested footy. With Robinson, Judd, Simpson, Bell, Carrazzo, McLean, Lucas and the moderate inclusion of Eddie and Jeff, I think our midfield depth is good. Not to forget depth players like Ellard and Curnow.



If we dont get some flexibility into our game style, it wont matter. We've become the longest kicking team in the league by a mile. You know why no one else kicks long like us? Because its too hard to win possession without giving 50% of it away with every kick by kicking to contests. Yes, long kicking is good but usually as a forward 50 entry. Blazing away down the boundary out of defence is mindboggling IMO. Its reminiscent of Pagan. Trying to retrofit a gamestyle into a club instead of assessing the teams strengths and weaknesses and devising a style to suit.


Me too. I expect MM to come to his senses and we'll play a hybrid game of what he requires and what is needed.

As I said. We finished top 8 in 09, 10 and 11 with a very credible performance in 011. As far as I'm concerned, with a reasonable run with injury, we have no excuses. IMO, we are structurally better than 011 and top 4 should be our expectation. We're just coming into our own as a list and we should be looking at a strong 3-4 years ahead, not a step backwards.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Well said BV. Agree wholeheartedly with all of that.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

What factual data have you offered? Simply telling me how many games were missed last year through injury is not relevant because I've told you that I don't believe injuries are the only problem. Of course we would have finished higher last year without injuries, but I do not accept that we would have been top 4 simply because of where we finished 2009-2011. Did you ever consider it a possibility that Semi Finals (2011) was as far as we could go with this group, at least under Ratten's game style? I posted on TC last pre-season (ie. before the injuries) that I thought we'd need a lot to go right to finish top 4 in 2012 and realistically I'd be happy to just make the finals.

You also seem critical of the new coach's game style, yet sure we'll make the top 4. I find that a little hard to work out.

Your post simply gives your opinions on players. Just as I have my opinions. They are not statements of fact.

Anyway, if you want data, check out Champion Data's assessment of our list in this year's AFL prospectus. They rate Carlton's list quality as 9th overall and our defenders as 14th in the competition. FWIW, I think that assessment is closer to the mark than yours and, coupled with the necessary adjustment period to implement the new coach's game style/plan, leads me to believe that we are likely to finish anywhere between 5th-12th in 2013.

I really really hope I'm wrong, but I simply can't see us as a top 4 team this year.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.