Yeah i am struggling a bit with the concept of having them two at Carlton.

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#DonTheStash

Which is where we differ. I don't see Hendo as a forward. of course he can play there, but he offers us more down back than up forward. Watson has a specific window of opponents he is suited for. Jamo is approaching Waite status in terms of reliability of being out there fully fit. mcinness is developing and again, has a specific set of opponents he is suited for.

Hendo is at least as flexible as Jamo in terms of the range of opponents he can effectively match up on.

But again, I really hope the club isn't taking the approach of some on here, which seems to be banking on the likes of Waite and Jamo to consistently get on the park. How many disrupted seasons do we need to see out of these guys before they ared viewed as they should be - good for 10-12 games a season fully fit. There's too many ifs around Waite and Jamo in particular for a team set on a serious gf tilt.

Yes, Clokes dad is a sideshow, yes, the kicking is a concern. Last year when his mind was clear he was the dominant forward in the competition by the length of the straight, and he is in his prime. I have no issue with getting him on board if the numbers work out.

Re: salary cap/cost - Which of our younger players have put their hands up for a massive pay increase this year? If you want a midfielder at that price level, unless there is another free agent mid out there I am not aware of, you are looking at spending the dollars and draft picks getting them in.

my view is to forget cloke and find midfieiders in the draft.Midfielders that are quick and skillful that gives them space and time to hit casbolt waite mitchell and hopefully mcCarthy on the chest.Can some1 tell me how many goals sydney power fwd kicked this year.

This!

How is getting Cloke via free agency in any way impacting on our ability to draft midfielders. If anything it helps the cause.

..actually i think Cloke to tigers could very quickly launch that team.. ..Cloke really likes to roam and work up the ground, where his contested marking, work rate and good field kicking work to his strengths.. ..Jack is an old school FF, an excellent finisher.. ..i reckon they'd work very well together.. ....i also think all this contract shizen is effecting his form.. ..but he's a v.good CHF and Jack is a v.good FF, could easily be a very damaging combo..

..however, as good as Cloke is i don't want him cos he simply costs too much.. ..not worth what you have to pay to shake him loose.. ..he's not the total packpage year in year out that Judd is, not worth such a big contract.. ..spend more on what we have, and go after a more 'reasonable' player..

....and i honestly believe that Hendo can be so much for us at CHF, i don't see any reason why he can't be as good if we develop him properly..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

The whole thing comes down to cost/salary cap and length of contract. No way the club will go for him at the cost and contract length demanded by the Cloke camp. Listen to Shane Rogers session on Blue Print and hangout. Clearly not a fan of the quick fix mentality.

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TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

Cloke to Richmond works well - he and Riewoldt can both sook about the shithouse delivery they get

Who plays second ruck?

That would be a interesting conversation.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Of course he isn't, he's hardly going to talk himself out of a job, haha. But Rogers also intimated he's not always happy with the decisions the list management group make.

So, you, me and Rogers--and a hell of a lot of others--are all on the same page regarding SayNoToCloke, sadly none of us have the final say.

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I'm actually with you too. If we had to actually trade for Cloke then forget it. But in terms of draft picks/players, he comes for free. Big wage, but worth it I reckon.

I have my doubts that SR would have anything much to do with it. Recruiting Cloke would be a call for the list manager and senior coach, especially given no draft picks would be changing hands.

I'm very happy that our head recruiter places his faith in getting good kids in though. Would be worried if he thought differently!

According to Rogers we don't have a single List Manager, rather a group consisting of Rogers, Ratten, Swann (and two others I forget now) who meet once a fortnight to discuss the management of our list.

Rogers explained this is similar to the Geelong and Collingwood model and he favours it over a single person as that person may clash with the coach, or whoever, whereas a group of five seems to be a good number to generate a workable consensus.

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Interesting. McKay would be on that committee too I suspect. I hope swann is there wearing a CEO hat, and not a wannabe onfield expert hat.

I see that as a problem. I think it limits our outlook when we see recruitment as fulfilling a set of basic requirements. Other clubs are always going to find a way of having a better midfield, better forward-line, etc, than yours no matter how attentive you think you have been in a certain area.

I don't know how to precisely put it but people on this forum almost invariably see recruiting as a way of 'correcting' weaknesses. I think it a potentially debilitating way to treat a list. To put it in practical terms, if we were to recruit Cloke, let's at least give him some time to see just how he impacts on our side before we decide if we can effectively ignore the drafting of any tall forwards.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

If we get Cloke, I look forward to the lamenting on TC in 5 years time when he is on his way out and Mitchell has just won his second Coleman medal for the Western Bulldogs or something like that lol

We really do have some good stocks up forward and down back coming through. Why not build them up? We just won a game by 16 goals with something like 4 first-year players. Why spend millions on Cloke only to have Casboult or Mitchell or Rowe or McCarthy go to another club because of having no spots?

According to Shane Rogers, Rowe was recruited to be the interim power-forward type for a couple of years while Casboult and Mitchell (who is earmarked as a leader in the future) develop into their prime. I like the sound of this plan as it should bring about a succession to Waite and Co 3-4 years down the track without the need to pay for Cloke.

On the other hand, I could also see how his presence may (key word there) bring about even better results over the next couple of years while some key position players are getting to that 50-100 game mark. Could be a recipe for success. Is the expense worth it though? Methinks... no.

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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive and then go do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman

Despite having started this thread, I am certainly not saying that Cloke isn't a very good player but what I baulk at is the cost of bringing him to Princes Park. Firstly, while I would consider $700-$750 over three seasons as a reasonable (though top end) deal the mooted $1Mill for five years is just way too much. And not only is it the actual cost but it is the opportunity cost i.e. the cost of missing out or losing other worthwhile players due to having so much of our salary cap in one basket[case?].

And then there is his dad.....

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

No bang for buck....

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I think ShanDog and GodisNavyBlue have summed it up nicely.
Too much for too long and it restricts our development of our own future stocks.
We've put time and patients in the young guys it would be a shame if some one else reaped the rewards now that they seem to be coming out of their serious injuries.