No

If he can lead us to a flag then there is a chance

Generally the greatest are those who played in 2 or more flags.

Mostly players from 1968-1998.

No point listing them others already have.

For me Wayne Johnston will always be the greatest.

Our biggest strength has always been we haven't relied upon one star to get the job done. Having never seen Nicholls and Jezza play and seen little of Doull its always hard to rate them, but I like the bloody big blanky theory.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Roos thinks the Carlton Judd is a lot better than the West Coast Judd

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/c ... 6051503434

The Carlton Judd was a lot harder to combat than the Eagles model

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Well....um....he's as tall as John Nichols, so he matches the great one with height.

He's still got the challenge ahead of himself as a Carlton player.
I reckon he needs at least 2 flags to match some of our greats, as we have plenty of multiple premiership players, including 3 and 4 flags.

Long way to go before the end of the Judd era at Carlton, and there's plenty of time for him to become the greatest Carlton player ever...especially if he leads us to 3 or even 4 flags.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Great Carlton players are measured generally on premierships - only a select few were considered greats and not played in a flag like John James, Lauire Kerr and Bugsy Comben.

Not real comfortable with all the attention Judd has received this week in the media. Watch the Saints on Monday, they will be all over him. Good opportunity for Murphy (assuming he plays) and others to step up while all the attention is on Judd.

Neither am I.

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.

If Juddy leads us to a flag. then yes he'll be right up there. As it stands, he's probably at Kouta-esque levels.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

These questions should only ever be asked at the end of a players career.

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Difficult one, but Juddy is probably going to be the first one picked in the team of the 21st Century.

Like Moshe, I loved Brent Crosswell, amazingly he played less than 100 games for the club. Maybe a criteria should be longevity. Brent also wasn't quite the same after osteomyleitis laid him low in 1971 - tho still good enough to singlehandedly win North their first flag. Juddy has Crosswell's extraordinary pace over 10 metres (but not his overhead skills), Johnno's fanatical attack on the contested ball, Bradley's gut running and Doullie's consistency.

He is a superstar and will be mentioned in the same company as our very elite. Maybe we should hold off a couple of years before deciding where he is the the pecking order but he is worthy of being in the company of the following:

Big John - super player with deceptive pace (like a quick charging elephant) and the great player's ability to seize crucial moments. Also he was very scary and when he was well past his best still took a vital pack mark in the last qtr of 1970 and helped mastermind possibly our greatest triumph when we totally changed our gameplan for the 1972 gf, and he let Percy J do the ruck work while kicking a lazy six himself and also set the scene when Sheedy blatantly took his eyes off the ball when he saw Nick coming, fumbled and Keogh got an early goal to set us on our way.

Kouta and Jezza - our 2 most talented players. But for injury Kouta would have had a brownlow and another few b& f's . Re Jezza a super player but remarkably only won one b & f which I think he won in 75 playing on a back flank

Doullie, Southby and SOS. Doull - the best half back ever. Southby an artist with beautiful disposal. SOS wonderful one on one defender. If we had been able to afford to play him at CHB all his career would have won a brownlow. His disposal by hand and foot was awful though.

Johnno - Super finals player. Not as skilled as the others but a great great player from a wonderful era. Could have 3 Norm Smiths for 79/82 and 87 - should have at least one.

Sticks and Fitzy. Both outstanding captains. Sticks was more consistent over his career but Fitzy was a real big gamer - could have won the 81/2 Norm Smith

Diesel - I know he was a great player, but I could never really warm to him. Never quite thought of him as Carlton when he was with us third time around. How could we not have thought he was good enough for the reserves and then swapped him for Fraser Murphy?

Bradley - Some say he was soft - but he was a supreme outside player, invented gut running, was never caught and had great footskills. He carried the ball forward, not sideways.

Juddy will absolutely join this list, but to be a great side we need a few more guys to at least be considered in this company. Various of the above were team mates and had other team mates not far behind. It is that talent and endeavour needed to be a great side. Hopefully Yarran, Garlett, Murph, Big K and Gibbs and maybe a few more can really develop into stars and give this list a shake

Great post Gerry.

Agree with all of it.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Well... except the bit about not accepting Diesel.

Loved him from day one.

Never agreed with the argument that he wasn't defensive enough. When you've got the ball 90% of the time and you're dishing it out perfectly to the rest of the side that's better defence than anything you'll get from someone who's spending half their time focussing on their opponent.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

I'm pretty sure he's been getting this media attention since day 1 when he stepped into the AFL.

He seems to have gone ok for a few years now.

Legend has it he doesn't read the papers anyway so it's just another week in paradise for him.

Sticks
Nick
Diesel
Judd
SOS

_________________
If it was a watermelon it would've drowned him!

Four Brownlows............

two Flags..........then the question won't be asked again.........!


kindest regards tommi

_________________
that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

_________________
#DonTheStash

May one day be right up there with them - but thsi question will be a lot easy to answer once he has hung up his boots.

Hardly missed a Melbourne-based game since '68. Comparisons are, as they say, odious. Have to vote for Diesel though.

_________________
Most users ever online was 271 on Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:50 pm

There is certainly merit to consider Judd in our top few after just three seasons. After all, how many triple B&F's do we have? You also need to keep in mind the impact he has had leading a very young group at a time when we were crying out for the Messiah. If this group do manage to win a premiership then he will take his place in the top 5....but he is not there yet. My era begins in the early '80, so for what it's worth:

1) Kernahan - If you were never fortunate enough to see Big Nick or Jezza in action can there be any doubt? This guy was a leader of men who galvanized the team on big occasions and delivered the goods when the pressure was on. What might have happened in '87 had he not kicked the goal after the siren to seal top spot. Yeah, he missed after the siren against the Bombers in '93 but we were down 12 points with 3 minutes left - who do you think kicked those two to tie the scores? It took all of 4 quarters to make amends when he went back from 40 and nailed it at PP against the Hawks with 6 seconds left the following week. What do you expect from your captain in a losing GF - check out the 1993 tape. Best one-grab leading forward we have had. Leading goal kicker for 10 years. Dual premiership captain. Number 1.

2) Silvagni - Universally acknowledged the best defender of his generation. Proved it against the greatest collection of forwards in any given era: Ablett, Dunstall, Lockett, Carey and co. A master of interpreting the flow of a game, the disposition of the umpires on the day and adjusting his play to execute as required. THE KEY component of our dominant '95 back line and the motivator behind our famous '99 PF victory against The Scum. As a forward he is one of the few in history to kick 10 in a game and could well have kicked 100 in a season if given the opportunity. The most fearless and courageous player I've even seen on a football field.

3) Johnston - Saved his best for big games, finals and Collingwood. Amazed me as a youth how he was always the last guy getting up off the bottom of a pack and handing the ball back to the umpire. I even asked my Dad if there was a stat for that....Inspired team mates with his toughness, tenacity and spectacular bursts from pack situations. Played in some great teams in the '80s and was the key individual that opposition teams had to stop (but couldn't) in many finals games.

4) Koutoufides - From the PF in 1999 through to that dark day against Richmond (our last final in Melbourne) back in 2001 he was playing the best football the game had ever seen. But for injury and if he had sustained that level of play he would be talked about as one of the greatest of all time. Watching him in 2000 is still the most fun I've had in my supporting career. I think if you combine this period with his first incarnation in '94-'96, where he was so difficult to match up on it allowed the likes of Williams, Bradley, Brown and Ratten latitude that they would not otherwise have had. Finally, his post-injury adjustment into the league's premier clearance player stamps his position in this top 5. He still managed to win a B&F on one leg and gave us a reason to go to the football in a very dark time.

5) Williams - Slow, old and didn't have a defensive bone in his body. A lot of debate as to whether he could succeed in today's game, where clearly the others in this list could. This was the same debate that took place during his career when he won every award possible and won a seat on the bench alongside Gary Ablett in the AFL's team of the century. The most skilled player I've seen. Never missed a target by hand or with either of his feet. Played in '95 off his left foot due to a worn out right knee. Unbelievable conversion rate if he touched the ball within the forward 50. Simply, it was either a shot on goal or on a teammate's chest.

So, Judd is not there yet. However, if Henderson had applied some stick-em, Judd's performance in last year's final would have been rated along side Kouta's from '99. If this is any indication, which clearly it is, and he stays healthy leading us to a flag - he is in.

HK

_________________
Racing & sports tips, form, odds and systems building - http://www.puntingform.com.au

Outstanding first post and all points well made HK !!

_________________
I wore number 25 on the back of my jumper 40 years ago..... yes, pre Marchesani !!