lets stick to the topic of the thread ie what is behind players wanting to leave

sure we could have made better decisions, but the past is the past.

as we move forward, the bar has to be raised. if grigg, thornton, walker want to pursue options elsewhere they don't want in.

If the reports are true ie pursuing an interest in the bulldogs, tigers or adelaide then there aspirations are not necessarily motivated by premierships. we have as much chance as the three clubs mentioned.

they clearly dont buy into what we ARE building.....who cares....lets get talent that does and talent that will contribute

I've never had rose coloured glasses and I think a few supporters need to throw theirs away. From 2004 when we were back in the draft and the worst side in the League with plenty of high draft picks to prove it we needed to do everything right to get to the top. We needed to draft better than everyone else - we've done okay but apart from te top picks and Simmo- not too many diamonds in the rough, certainly less than some clubs and no more than most. Certainly Collingwood who are the best have drafted better than us with lesser picks than us. We tried desperately to appoint Michael Voss, who has led the Lions to oblivion, and then appointed an inexperienced mate who happened to be at the club at the time. Is Ratts the best coach in the league, the second best, the fifth best, tenth best? He ain't the best and that's what we needed. Currently he has no assistants. Is that because the best people were picked to support him? Is Sticks the best Pres in the league? Joking. The one wonderful we have done is recruited Judd. Without him we wouldn't have finished higher than tenth.

And really the old chesnut about retrospective drafting whenever anyone questions the clubs decisions, is pretty lame. Yes drafting is easy in retrospect, but we didn't need to be perfect, we needed to be better than evryone else, or than almost everyone else. Have we been? We have got good players with the number one picks - big deal, of course we will. What about picks outside the first round?
We are destined for a long drought and a grim future unless we improve in all areas. What strategies do we have to build our support to C'wood levels?

We have had our big go at the draft and it will determine our capacity to win a flag while we have Judd. I feel very pessimistic.

Why do you want other posters to be pessimistic and have such a sour opinion of the club?

POW

I reckon there's a lot of blind faith out there when we need to improve massively in all areas, and will only do that by being clear eyed about where we are. If you think we have done better than other clubs at drafting, development, coaching over the last 5 years and are therefore primed for a successful era, that's great. I just can't see it.

I reckon there's a lot of blind faith out there when we need to improve massively in all areas, and will only do that by being clear eyed about where we are. If you think we have done better than other clubs at drafting, development, coaching over the last 5 years and are therefore primed for a successful era, that's great. I just can't see it.

Why do you want other posters to be pessimistic and have such a sour opinion of the club?

1997

Kris Massie
Adam Chatfield

1998

Marray Vance

2000

Trent Sporn
Simon Wiggins
Blake Campbell

2003

Andrew Walker

2004

Adam Hartlett

2006

Hampson
Grigg

This is an amazing hit/miss ratio so far.

Whats wrong with Hammer?

Whats wrong with Hammer?

He doesn't have the basic level of co-ordination required to play football!

I think our drafting from 2004 to present has been pretty good - sure not perfect but whose is? Remember Collingwood used their first pick in 2007 on Cameron Wood.

Excluding the "obvious" early picks below are the highlights of our drafting in this period:

2004
- first pick (#9) on Russell was best possible selection out of several options
- "diamond in rough" Eddie Betts
2005
- pick #20 on Bower a very good selection. Bernie Vince the only better player taken afterwards.
2006
- pick #17 on Hampson good selection
- ditto pick #19 on Grigg. Very disappointed he wants out.
After these 2 players, Tippett at pick #32 was only the better option.
2007
- pick #46 on Armfield good value.
- "diamond in the rough" Jamison
2008
- Glad we took Yarran over the "safer" option of Rich.
- Warnock trade for pick #24 great value
- "diamond in the rough" Garlett
2009
- Magnificent trade to get Henderson and pick #12 for Fev.
- Pick #12 for Lucas a gem.
- Marcus Davies looks a likely type for pick #43

Sure the McLean trade doesn't look good so far but remember he is still only 24yo and hopefully will be over his injuries next year. Too early to call this trade.

McLean is our Wood.

In the above list have we done better than every other team, or most other teams, because if you are starting at the bottom, that' s what you need to do.

Time will tell, but you'd love a draft where we got more than two players. We have done well in the rookie draft, as have most clubs. How many rookies did the Pies have out there yesterday. It's the picks outside the first round of the national draft that we have failed to capitalise on.

Also it is not to do with the bounce of the ball in the first gf. The saints are a fair way ahead of us, mainly due to an excellent authorative coach.

Anyway, if everyone else thinks there are blue skies ahead, that's great. I can't see it. Maybe in 2012 we can get a quality experienced coach, with quality assistants in an environment that players don't want to leave, where the team and not the individual are paramount, and get the very best out of our list. At the moment we look rudderless.

Spot on Gerry.