How is he a tall at 189-190cms, when you playing on talls 195+

It may only be 2-3cms difference, but the girls do say size counts

Thornton 192
Bower 192
Jamo 193

Playing against the likes of Kennedy 196cms and Gumbleton 197cms, that is quite a bit of difference in height and wing span for spoiling. Walker played on Gumbleton and l didn't think he did a good job. Gumbleton kicked a couple goals on him and couldn't spoil gumbleton.

190cm for a third tall is fine, especiallly when you look at the third tall forwards that are playing these days. How many team's third tall forward is above 194cm? (with the exception of resting rucks, and that's a different story).

I once had a discussion with my accountant, who's a big Carlton man, about our key backs. I did some research, the majority of the top key position backs in the last 10 years were between 190 and 194 (from memory, Mal Michael was 190, Leppitch not much taller). Fletcher is an obvious exception.

the gist of my argument though is that most clubs are now playing 2 talls forward, and then mids and small. therefore Walker works well as someone who can play tall if needed (not an a Brown, on a third tall. Jamison and Bower take Brown and Fevola, Riewoldt and Koschitske, Podsiadly and Mooney etc. Remember, he was killing Hawkins when he hurt his shoulder).

A backline of Jamison and Bower, with Walker, Russell, Armfield and Gibbs/Joseph/Lucas etc I think has the perfect balance of height, mobility and run. Comparing it's function this year to the last 2 years supports that.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Yes.

In referance to the threads topic.

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Carlton Premiers '10

I totally agree with this.

Gumbleton had 10 disposals, 6 marks and kicked 1 goal
Hawkins had 8 handballs, obviously no goals

Both 197cm and Walker has done a superb job on them.

Look, the worry about talls is a myth really. I still remember David Teague being crucified for being matched up on Greg Stafford one day. Stafford had all of about 6 touches. I don't think we get exploited by them nearly as much as is being made out.

Jonothan Brown is the only one thats really carved us up, maybe you'd say Buddy as well. Bower would have been first choice against both and didn't play.

You can count on one hand the number of forwards over 196cm who have had sustained long term success. To recruit players specifically to counter them would be a waste.

Lets say we recruited a 197cm defender and were playing Adelaide in a couple of weeks when Bower is back in the team. Do we drop one of Jammo or Bower so our 197cm defender can play on Tippett or go in with 3 talls and Walker and throw the balance of our team out?

Best thing you can do is exploit them going the other way. Walker had 19 disposals against Essendon* and 18 disposals in 2.5 quarters against Geelong.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

So far this season we have exploited opposition tall forwards lack of run more than they have exploited our size. If or when that swings the other way I will agree we need to change our balance and try and bring in a taller defender.

Yes!
So happy Waite and Hoops are back this week.
And thank god they left Hadley and Browne in, those boys provide us with some steel!
Bring on the Dees!

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I absolutely love Carlton Football Club.


Rambo Robinson #12

Realistically, when they're on song, what defender can match buddy's combination of speed, height and skill? Roo's endurance? Brown's ability to impose his will on a match.

These guys are hard to match up on for a reason.

When we start getting beaten up by Hale or Cloke I'll start asking questions.

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STURDYISM!!

You'd push Walker or Russell into midfield and have Bower man a medium player, in this case, Burton.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I would too.

Thank goodness for inaccurate kicking against us, because if he kicked straight, Tippet would've kicked 9 against us last year and should've kicked 5 this year. I wonder why he gets so many opportunities when he has a hard tag from Jamo. He's not beating Jamo on the lead.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Tippett took two marks this year Bondi?

Actually on reflection when should Tippett have kicked 9 goals against us last year playing on Jammo? Jammo was injured for the second game.

It actually surprises me that you'd alter our structure like that.

I hadn't checked the stats before I asked that question, but as Belisarius pointed out, Tippett only had 5 kicks and kicked 2 behinds against us this year. Now you may argue thats because we dominated the game further up field and so Tippett was starved of opportunity, but thats really the point, it has a lot to do with pressure in the forward 50 and through the midfield.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

He does play a bit in the Ruck as well TBB which sort of helps their case, but he really only had any impact on the game in the last and I certainly don't think he dominated at any stage. When matched up on him Jammo had him well under control for the great majority of the time I probably wouldn't give them the slight out that he was starved of opportunity TBB, they actually had five more forward fifty entries 41 to 36. I just think that Jammo is a better allround defender than they think (especially Bondi ) and is improving.

The first game last season Tippett kicked two goals but only took two marks in a game where they smashed us, his stats were very similar to the game this year, except he converted. It was their smalls and mediums who killed us that day and our own coaches box It can't be denied that Tippett flogged us second game last season, but Jammo didn't play and they were white hot, coupled with our team defensive efforts being awful. Which I think highlights your point.

I would never of picked you for that tactic Jimmae. To me that sounds like a step backwards. Using Walker to expose a tall forward is a weapon for us. So much so i think soon coaches will realise what we are doing and stop playing a third or even a second tall forward.

At worst i reckon playing a shorter mobile backline will cost us on average 3 goals a game but i could bet that the drive we get and the tone that is set by playing a shorter mobile backline sets us up for a lot more goals. I am sure Ratts has the stats to back this.

I wouldnt change the setup but agree it would be handy if Jamo was 3cm taller and Bower 3kg heavier.

I am not saying Jamo is not a good defender. He is a fantastic defender with good closing speed.
In fact we look our of whack when he's missing. He stiffens up our spine. He's highly valued. I love him, and he's only human.

I am pointing out a gap in our defense, against height. That's all.

The fact that Tippet did kick a bag, whether it was Jamo or Bower or whoever, it was Tippett's height which exposed us. True?

I've seen Jamo outmarked by taller opponents. Haven't you?
I've seen Jamo give away plenty of cheap frees away when he was likely to be outmarked. Haven't you?
I've seen our defense look small when taller forwards have taken their spot at FF. Haven't you?

Lets just focus on the discussion of height as perhaps one of our few weaknesses, instead of the man.
The said weakness is something all teams suffer from at some stage, and it's not a Jamo-Bower issue; it's a footy issue.

If we have no achilles heal/ weaknesses then we are perfect. If that's your premise fine.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I just deleted a post that totally misunderstood one of your comments. So you need to whack me over the head for being a dill

At this stage I think it is now down to we will just have to agree to disagree

Played the kind of game today that you need across half forward, that I don't think anyone else at the Club is currently able to play on a consistent basis. We look so much better with him there.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I'd only change it for certain match-ups.

If there was a 195+ cm forward target we had to deal who is in good form, I would bring in a specialist defender. I've watched games where resting ruckmen, Brown, Westhoff, etc have made us look silly simply because we haven't been able to control the midfield and the rest of our personnel are too small.

There's no harm in giving a serious look to a taller defender if there's one in the draft pool.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Bower is certainly the missing link for us. He is 193cm with long arms and is getting stronger by the month.

Occasionally we might get outmarked down back by a really tall forward but with guys like Brown it is more his physical size and strength that is hard to move off the ball.

Reiwoldt just runs his opponents ragged plus he has the great spring at the marking contest. Hard to beat that all game.

I'll back Bower to break even with all the best forwards in the Comp. He is very rarely beaten badly.

Once Bower is back in with Jamo and our brand new Andrew Walker running rampant I am supremely confident we can cover most forwardlines. Add JR, Army and the mix of Scotto, Gibbo, AJ and/or Lucas and I think we have a fair back 6. Lucas is 188cm and can play taller with his spring. He just needs some more size. I like the idea of ulternating Scotto, Lucas, Gibbs and Walker up on wing to give some run towards F50. Waite up forward means that Setanta might get the 2nd best defender which is always a good thing.

Regards Cazzesman

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