Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Tue Jun 24, 2025 5:55 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 97 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:12 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:18 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Deep Blue Sea
Synbad wrote:
.........................................................................................................

Fev was a gun forward.. and we have been blaming him for being a gun forward... and we dont want him to be a gun forward... so now were close to having no gun forward....

..............................................................................................................................


This is so true it's scary. This plan was put into action against Collingwood last week and I was hoping that it was only some weird experiment. Today it took flight !!!

_________________
"IF YOU FAIL TO PREPARE, YOU'RE PREPARED TO FAIL" - Mark Spitz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:19 am 
Offline
formerly King Kenny
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
Pros:

- Defence kept Adelaide under 20 goals.
- Bower and Browne clearly best for Carlton.
- Stevens played consistently over four quarters.
- Yarran on Knights was working well until JR was moved back onto him.

Cons:

- Footsteps by many including the stars
- Waite's injury
- Everything else outside of pros.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:21 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
the weird thing is, the game style is worse than last year! Last year we took the game on much more often with a weaker team. I don't get it, but I have to give them some benefit of the doubt, they must be working on a bigger picture long term....right???


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:28 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
aramari wrote:
the weird thing is, the game style is worse than last year! Last year we took the game on much more often with a weaker team. I don't get it, but I have to give them some benefit of the doubt, they must be working on a bigger picture long term....right???



The weirder thing is there are more average teams in he comp this yeasr than last year.

If StKilda wins tomorrow it will be the first time ever (i hear) that 2 teams are on 9-0... and a whole heap of clubs come up close together way behind them..


weak comp.... and we arent making headway...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:36 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
livolover wrote:
this is about the fact that no matter who is currently wearing the navy blue is being "instructed" (and I use this term very loosely) to play a brand of football that is not conducive to winning football games !!!!

WE NEED A COACH AND A GAME PLAN that the players can believe in, that will give you the best chance of winning football games and provide structure and direction to allow even average players to resemble good ordinary footballers (as opposed to deers in headlights ie. armfield !)


You kick more goals than your opposition and you win.

From 2008 Rattens objective was not to develop and build a side but to put a stop to the heavy losses. He had to stem the bleeding and present a somewhat respectable results because we needed the money, members and sponsors.......... therefore making him a puppet. No other senior coach would have copped that


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:19 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2469
Location: Princess Park
PROS

Kruezer - I'll say it again PLEASE play him at CHF, we should be planning for 2011, we need structure. Setanta nd Hammer can share the ruck until 206 is ready. Fev needs help and Kruezer is our best option. Gun mark, mobile and good on the ground.

Stevens - PLEASE play him forward of the ground not in the BACKLINE. Stevens best asset is his clearance work and disposal in to the forward line. Good game today but why was he in the back line for so much of the time :mad:

Austin and Bower did well again, Ilkie Austin's aggression. Must continue to play in the seniors.

Armfield at least he had a crack - ala Essendon*, must break lines to win games.

Browne also had a crack, needs more games


CONS

Jordy "Untouchable" Russell - Terrible, must be dropped, had 5 kicked on him, not up to the pressure, soem are so quick to slag Setanta but for some reason this guy is protected. He will be 23 yrs old later this year, played more than 60 games and has been in the system for 5 years.

Wiggins - too slow when the ball hits the ground, not the future.

Gibbs - Needs to appreciate the hard work players do to get him the ball, his disposal today was terrible. Better than what we saw today however he needs to toughen up.

Our kick ins - Honestly do we try to improve in this area cause every week it's a pisser watching us try to get the ball out from a behind. HOw come other sides can clear the ball in to the forward line from defence so quickly whilst we struggle to hit the one target :banghead:

Other average teams continue to improve and win whilst not having to bomb out and have the early draft picks like us. Something is wrong cause every team has young inexperienced players and injuries we can not continue to use this as an excuse.

Two years ago I could take the losses but now we have had the luxury of draft picks like no other club the excuses are running thin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:34 am 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:10 am
Posts: 463
Location: WA
Pros

Kreuzer
Bower
Joseph - certainty for promotion to the senior list next year
Hampson - clearly improving quickly now
Yarran - more confident today - moves like a cat
Robinson - good attack on the footy
Jamison - better game this week
Austin - early days and a few errors, but clearly worth playing
Browne - ditto

Liked the endeavour shown by Stevens today. Some shocking disposal early, but played himself into a bit of form by the end.

Am I correct in thinking that the run on in the third quarter coincided with a period where Thornton was playing a role in the forward line?
Hello MC? Hope they noticed that worked.

Like Armfield's run and dash. Some terrible turnovers but not sure he had much to kick to?

Which leads into the Cons:

Structure, matchups, gameplan.

I agreed with the team as selected. Thought Wiggins had been sent to Cramer Street for a reason.

The team feng shui is not working for Bryce Gibbs. Where exactly is he being played? Is it to his strengths?

We have quite a lot of injuries and most of the Carlton listed players lining up for the Bullants tomorrow are there because they haven't been quite good enough for the seniors, are still too green or have been woefully out of form.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:48 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 5270
Pros

Kreuzer, Yarran, Browne and Bower.

We have hope guys but it's pinned on 20/21 yr olds....

Cons

We are too young, too reactive and lacking in any guts and initiative. Bower showed guts today, Armfield showed guts, Kreuzer a bit...so too Murph ....but they were in the minority. The well drilled teams will continue to beat us as I knew Adelaide would.

THE biggest con of all for me right now is our bloody slogan...the teams are using it against us, using it for ammunition and we aren't mature or tough enough to walk the walk yet. I tore the bloody thing down after Freo beat us....we are a bunch of arrogant so and so's and we are fast becoming the new Collingwood....probably a higher average IQ though...

I'll just add, to settle myself down a bit. Remember when you were 20/21? You're not developed and I doubt this team will be for another 2 or 3 years yet.

_________________
The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 2:10 am 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 3996
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
PRO
-Bower (!!!!)
-Joseph
-fitness allowed us to run out the game and make the score semi-respectable
-again robbo showed heart
-stevo
-Yarran starting to get a feel for it
-Hammer slowly learning how tpo play

CON
-Waite's injury (this will REALLY hurt us)
-hardness (ie absolutely none)
-fev: couldnt adjust for the wind, again no confidence, getting sick of his off-days
-hadley: goes missing, might be in danger this week
-JR: WHY THE FLOWER IS HE IMMUNE FROM BEING DROPPED!!!!
-Fumbles. just out of control in the first half
-hammer tapping it to the crows advantage FAR TOO OFTEN !!!!! :~(


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 3:29 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 1:09 am
Posts: 5245
Rafalution wrote:
Pros:

- Defence kept Adelaide under 20 goals.


Thats not really a pro, adelaide have been low scoring all season


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:41 am 
Offline
Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:53 pm
Posts: 848
Location: Warner
Bluey44 wrote:
-hammer tapping it to the crows advantage FAR TOO OFTEN !!!!! :~(


I didn't think this was exclusively a Hammer thing yesterday. We were winning a hell of a lot of taps, but having them shark almost every one, ala our gameplan against Sandilands last year..... IMO It showed how exlusively we try to use Judd for the takeaway role.....

_________________
Now stalking Carlton on Twitter and Facebook!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:05 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
Pro's

The young and inexperienced had a dip....
Bower
AJ
Jamo
Austin
Robbo
Kruezer
Murph
Hammer
Browne
Yarran

Our players were subjected to immense, finals type pressure. It was good to see who could adapt and who collapsed under the pressure.

Cons.

Fumbling. The players who fumbled did so because they succumbed the the physical pressure and took their eyes off the ball. Lets be serious here, they're not thinking about the gameplan or structure when they're putting their head over the pill. To suggest so is mischievious. Several blokes will have put themselves back a long way in the MC's estimations today.

The ability of Adelaide to completely molest Judd at the stoppages and get away with it.

Lack of on field leadership.
Once the captain was being double teamed and molested, no one else had the want or ability to stand up and set the standard required. You cant float through 30 minutes of footy and reassess at quarter time or half time. Someone has to stand up and change the momentum with their actions. We dont have anyone with the ability or inclination to do so.

Our midfielders.
Too quick to run forward of the contest but not prepared to sacrifice their own game when the heat is on. You can blame Ratten all you want for pushing Fev up the ground but the reality is that Adelaide had 18 I50s in the first quarter!!! The only time the ball got near our forward line was when Fev kicked it there. We were caned around the stoppages.

Tyson Edwards. I would have put a tight tag on him. He loves playing against Carlton.

Gibbsy.
Its best I dont go any further. Yes he's still a kid but suffice to say he has several areas he needs to work on.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:15 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Blue Vain wrote:
Pro's

The young and inexperienced had a dip....
Bower
AJ
Jamo
Austin
Robbo
Kruezer
Murph
Hammer
Browne
Yarran

Our players were subjected to immense, finals type pressure. It was good to see who could adapt and who collapsed under the pressure.

Cons.

Fumbling. The players who fumbled did so because they succumbed the the physical pressure and took their eyes off the ball. Lets be serious here, they're not thinking about the gameplan or structure when they're putting their head over the pill. To suggest so is mischievious. Several blokes will have put themselves back a long way in the MC's estimations today.

The ability of Adelaide to completely molest Judd at the stoppages and get away with it.

Lack of on field leadership.
Once the captain was being double teamed and molested, no one else had the want or ability to stand up and set the standard required. You cant float through 30 minutes of footy and reassess at quarter time or half time. Someone has to stand up and change the momentum with their actions. We dont have anyone with the ability or inclination to do so.

Our midfielders.
Too quick to run forward of the contest but not prepared to sacrifice their own game when the heat is on. You can blame Ratten all you want for pushing Fev up the ground but the reality is that Adelaide had 18 I50s in the first quarter!!! The only time the ball got near our forward line was when Fev kicked it there. We were caned around the stoppages.

Tyson Edwards. I would have put a tight tag on him. He loves playing against Carlton.

Gibbsy.
Its best I dont go any further. Yes he's still a kid but suffice to say he has several areas he needs to work on.



We were caned everywhere BV.. we went into the game with a defeatist mentality.
We waved Ratts little white handkerchief as soon as the game started.
The players were confused what to do.

When we did get our hands on the ball there was nothing we could do with it anyway.

And can you tell me what the gameplan is?

Gibbs is playing nothing football cos he is being given a nothing role...

Gibbs should be the man who makes the telling inside 50s not Armfield.

E verything is out of shape and whack!!!

Besides everyone has the cheap kick mentality .. and chasing cheap possesions cos thats the gameplan.
Chip.. handball to nothingness.
You look at how many players are not running hard enough but are waiting for cheap disposals under this coaching regime.

The responsibility to be aggresive with disposals and fight for the ball has been stripped.

Carrazzo now does it.. Gibbs does it.. Waite does it.. T Bird does it.. Stevens does it... even Hadley is doing it...

Its the Ratten high stats diseases!!!... and its spread faster than 'Pig virus;...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Last edited by Synbad on Sun May 24, 2009 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:26 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:12 am
Posts: 1730
Pros:
Stevens
Kruz
Joseph
Bower

Cons:

- Waites injury
- Knowing pre-game that Neil Craig was going to outcoach and out smart Brett Ratten who is a park coach


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:30 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Ratts a Park coach or not, Craig hasnt played football at the highest standard and is a sports scientist who has been getting pretty long in the tooth himself... but we resurrected him...
We resuscitate alot of players and coaches.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:47 am 
Offline
Serge Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:33 pm
Posts: 965
Kreuzer, Browne, Yarran, Bower all did plenty to give confidence for the future, Robinson's strong contested mark was a real plus as well, but we need to face facts.
Just because kids are young and wearing the Navy Blue it doesn't follow that they'll all become AFL standard players, and without naming players there are a few from yesterday's side who won't make it.
Hampson, like O'Hailpin, has his elbows too straight when attempting to mark overhead, it's a basic technical flaw so who if anyone at the club has pointed it out and is anyone trying to rectify it?
Bower's ball drop is all wrong and his weight too much on his back foot so his kicks are up and under and many of his passes easily spoiled, again, basic tecnique, young Austin doesn't make contact early enough in marking contests amd is easily hipped off the ball.
These things need ironing out early or they become unbreakable habits like Carrazzo's high, two handed ball drop that means he can't hit targets past 35 metres.
There's more to coaching than moving magnets on a white board.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:23 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1109
Location: Not Telling
Can people stop saying that the game yesterday was finals like pressure :donk: :donk: :donk: :donk:

Adelaide had a chance to put us away and are not up to it. They went to sleep in the third quarter. We fumbled the ball and the only pressure Carlton had was put on ourselves due to turn overs and not winning the ball. We missed targets and had an empty forward line so had to slow down the game and go wide. Adelaide didn't put pressure on us, we put it on ourselves.

Finals pressure :donk: :banghead: :lol:

_________________
Delulio is a member of TISM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:29 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 15848
Synbad wrote:
Ratts a Park coach or not, Craig hasnt played football at the highest standard and is a sports scientist who has been getting pretty long in the tooth himself... but we resurrected him...
We resuscitate alot of players and coaches.


We've been playing teams and individuals back into form for years.

This year alone, Lloyd and Essendon*, Adelaide and Chris Knights :lol: , Hawthorn, Sydney. If Q Lynch kicks 9 this week and we lose, it wouldn't surprise.

_________________
"I had to eat"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:58 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
DIAMOTISM wrote:
Adelaide didn't put pressure on us, we put it on ourselves.



Yes, of course. We must have tackled ourselves.
Thanks for your insightful contribution. :lol:

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: R9: Pros & Cons
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:12 am 
Offline
Wayne Johnston

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:00 am
Posts: 8229
Location: canberra
Pros

Lucky we played Crows yesterday and not the Saints because we would have lost 20 goals + - and morale would have collapsed among the young players especially

Bower

Young kids getting gametime - AJ, Army, Hammer, Browne, Yazza, Aussie, Robbo, Jammo, Gibbs, Kreuze

Cons

Gameplan - either it's seriously flawed or the players aren't getting it. I hope its the latter

_________________
I need some new conspiracy theories; all my others have come true.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 97 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group