DUC yes he had a HUGE conflict of interest but as discussed above we had no choice available given the circumatances ie loan AFL THE AFL position on us having to have some home games at Telstra - the club didnt have any effective choice

Collo having a huge conflict of interest doesnt negate the fact that the club was dragooned into having some of its home games at Telstra by the AFL

The fact that Collo had this conflict and it was well publicised meant the focus was on that rather than the AFL being dictatorial in respect to what VENUES would be our home ground

I'm trying to remember verything that happened at that time but it's hard to work out what's real and not - why wouldn't the AFL let us play home games at the G?

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Wanted another power like Essendon* ie strong club with big supporter base to be an Anchor tenant at the dome - crowds at dome would significantly improve once Carlton were a force again in the AFL - TELSTRA DOME in the first few years was not very successful - having Carlton play some home games there would underpin improvement in crowd/attendance figures and gate receipts for Telstra Dome

Thank you Frank, my sentiments exactly and a true representation of history.

BM

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

We, and other clubs, just have to hope the AFL wins its legal battle with the Dome which will allow them to see the deal the Dome has done with Melbourne Victory.

Pretty sure i read somewhere the AFL has a caveat that no other code can get a better deal than any of the clubs at the Dome. If this is true then i can't see how Victory are making any money, they'd surely have to be losing money. But if they were losing money then they wouldn't be playing there

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

Visy Park will be used again for AFL matches, I am sure. This isn't a romantic notion either, with the AFL's backing, it will happen, it is the cheapest viable option. That said, I wouldn't be expecting us to play that many matches there, maybe 3-4, but sides like North, Bulldogs and Melbourne would love to play their interstate games at Visy, to improve their bottom line.

One point that has not been mentioned is, at the time in 2004 no one doubted financial returns would look better if we played the interstate sides at Visy Park, the problem was we had to pay for the maintenance of the stadium as an AFL venue, and it simply wasn't feasible with so few games being played there. So now those two problems won't exist - other clubs will play there, and the AFL will pay for the maintenance of the stadium.

Also with the AFL behind the move and sides potentially worried about lack of exposure for TV, lights could be a possibility. I know the residents blocked it last time, but it was us (and an arrogant John Elliott) against the world. The AFL have a great track record of getting what they want, so this could also be possible.

Cheers
ALEX

IMCO, I believe and agree with AC on the likelihood of PP being the 3rd AFL venue. The AFL is quite enamoured with the projected establishment of the Gold Coast ad Western Sydney sides that it will, as top priority, spend inordinate sums of $$$ to ensure this will happen. Given the tough economic climate and that $$$ can only go so far, it makes sense to the AFL to refurbish PP. And it will take half the time it would've been set aside for the building of a new stadium. The devil(s) in the details will be, i believe, the following:
[*] The residents;
[*]John Elliot and his position at CFC (he may want to prove a point);
[*]Are CFC and the AFL ready to move on; and
[*]Will the AFL clubs, especially the interstate sides, accept such an arrangement?

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Be positive to all those @ TC- the wait is almost over!

do i actually need to say anything?

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

For the points above here are my thoughts

* The residents - Wont be a problem to get matches back there. The stadium was there long before any residents were, and I can't remember any agreement being signed stating AFL football could never come back to the venue. The lights I mentioned could be tougher, but if they can get the Grand Prix at Albert Park, this is also possible.

* Big Jack - Jack has no axe to grind with anyone currently at Carlton and wields no power these days. Also, remember this is not a matter for just Carlton, 3-4 other clubs will also benefit, so the AFL wont pack it in if Jack starts mouthing off. Mind you Jack was right about keeping some games at Visy, doesn't excuse the fact he ruined our relationship with the AFL, cheated the salary cap and bought the club to his knees. One half right, doesn't make up for some diabolical wrongs.

* CFC & AFL - Ditto above, different management at the club now, different times. We are very strong now and relationship with the AFL is very good. Also, it seems both parties want the same thing, a cheap ground to play low drawing games at, Carlton wont want a slice of the pie from other clubs games, and the AFL will pay for the maintenance of the ground, we don't have douche bags running the club these days.

* Interstate sides - what part of the agreement effects them? The TV side of things?

Well, I mean, sides like Freo and Port, the lower drawing sides- weren't they the key objectors to playing at PP in the first place?

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Be positive to all those @ TC- the wait is almost over!

Its amazing how people here read what they want to read and ignore the rest.

Jars has given you the answers here, yet you're still complaining we're getting 40c per head.

There will be no 3rd stadium, there's no need for one.

Swann is doing his part to fight the fight for the AFL/Clubs against the MCG/Etihad. Unfortunately they're a bit smarter than the footballing public, but eventually a deal will be done and the clubs will get a better return.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

I can't remember that, but I am not sure why their opinion really matters, what say can they have in where their away matches are played? Do you recall why they objected? Was it because they wanted more of a run on the MCG for the finals (a fairly moot point in Freo's case).

I mean if the surface is fine, and the changerooms have working showers and toilets, I am not sure what difference it is for them playing at Visy as opposed to the G or Etihad.

In the last two years we have played Freo and Port three times at Docklands. We have finished out of finals both seasons.

The crowds were,

28,955
29,696
29,678

So a 25,000 seat stadium means that these games would have to be either fully ticketed or some type of ballot/FIBD option for members. I can't really see that happening, so Port and Freo games would still go to Docklands.

That leaves just Gold Coast and Western Sydney. So at the most we would be playing one, maybe two games a year at the ground. We will give away our spiritual home for one or two games a year?

With Carlton losing the lease on the ground what would the AFL do with respect to signage and corporate boxes?

Will we need permission from the AFL to train on Princes Park?

What will happen to the Gardiner stand?

How will it look on the TV with half the ground with no spectators (due to the trainingf facility)?

The AFL and Carlton are posturing together to get a better deal at the current grounds. It will all be over soon and there will end up being no plans to transform Princes Park from a wreck into a stadium.

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Jarusa, eventually a better deal may be organised, but still a crowd of 25k at Visy Park would beat a 30k return at Etihad or the MCG.

Also - I know the crowds we get against the low drawing sides are above 25k, but bigger crowds don't equal more money. I would rather get 23-25k at Visy Park than 28-29k at Etihad, it would be a lot better atmosphere not to mention much better for our gate receipts. If it means they are pre-ticketed, so be it.

So I do agree that a lot of this is being exaggerated to get better deals, and it is possible we may not even play at Visy Park. I think the importance of a third stadium is greater for smaller clubs than us (North, Bulldogs, Melbourne and even St Kilda), and it is mainly being linked with us because we have an historic attachment to the ground, and we currently have a dud deal.

only problem with your argument jar

is you assuming its going to stay at 25k, that is its capacity as we speak.

if its redeveloped, it would be redeveloped for the 30k-35k attendance, i would imagine.

it makes sense, you know it makes sense.

a 30-35k (PP) stadium for the lower drawings crowds (probably see sides like North, Bulldogs etc.. play there more than us)

a 45-55k (ES) stadium for the medium drawing crowds

a 55k+ (MCG) for the bigger drawing crowds

you may want to fight it, and you may not want to accept it, and indeed the afl may being doing it as a bluff, but you cant argue that it makes sense in having a third stadium for the express purpose of the smaller drawing crowds.

the stupid thing about it, is it would have cost the AFL alot less if they had of taken over the running on PP, rather than let it rot and die like they wanted to and do everything in their power to ruin Elliot and carlton in the process.

the only proviso i have for it, if it does go ahead, is that it remains our ground, in regards social club/training facilities/ i.e. the development that is happening now.

Princess Park, is/was/and should always be the spirtutal home of the Carlton Football Club. if the AFL coming on board and running the ground then fine, aslong as the club has those favilities to itself, then i have no issue with it.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

There is no way they could get the ground to over 30,000 just with a refurbishment with the training facility there.

The Gardiner stand would have to be demolished and a multi tier stadium put in place. It's footprint is quite small so it would not add much capacity.

So to get to 30,000 one of the Elliot, Legends or Pratt stand would need to be demolished and replaced with a larger stand.

Then if the capacity approached 30,000+ more problems are introduced with respect to parking and public transport to the ground. People these days like to get there quick and leave there quick. If you get 30,000 at Princes Park ease of access is not going to happen which in turn discourages repeat visitors.

I just cannot see it happening in any form.

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yes, becuase you are an architect

there are a number of things they could do, but without having a budget or scope of works, its all heresay.

but to say they cant do it, is rubbish.

anything can be done, if you are willing to pay for it.

IMO, it would be cheaper to redevelop PP than it would be to build a new stadium from scratch, but that isnt always the case. it depends, on what they want to do with the stadium ... of which none of us have any idea (though i could think of a few suggestions)

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Stuff the seats, what about a new scoreboard with replay capabilities!!! Priorities!!!

The stadium has a 25,000 seat capacity left. How are they going to fit an extra 5,000 seats in without having to demolish at least one stand?

Hang chairs on ropes from the roof of the Legends stand?

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my friend who goes for the filth reads this forum like the loser pie he is and said to say Visy park is made from cardboard hahahhahah

so funny.