The appointment of Ratten is probably the only time since Dick took over the presidency that we've settled for the best available.

I think it's still too early to tell whether Ratten's going to be a great coach or a crap one but the fact that we don't know at this stage suggests we didn't get the best in the country after Pagan left.

He's going to have to prove he's very, very good by mid next year at the latest or he's gone.

Coaches have traditionally been expendable at Carlton in the modern era and our club has won 8 premierships in 40 years. At one point it was 8 in 27 years.

I can't see Dick and Swanny waiting around for too long to see how it all pans out.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Paul Roo's

What are any new coaches credentials? Mark Harvey has been an assistant since Jesus wore shorts, he has blue chip credentials by your reckoning.

What was Woosha's credentials when he got the gig at West Coast?

If in 2 years Ratts is garbage as a coach, then he will be shown the door, but you jumping up and down after only 10 weeks.

If you mention the last 6 weeks of 2007, I will brain you.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Carlton have rarely been sentimental when it comes to appointing or sacking coaches.

In 1978 we went through 3 coaches - gave reluctant care-taker coach Sergio Silvagni (a favourite son) the heavo - and gave even more reluctant coach Jezza the job because there was no-one else - less than 50 games later Jezza won the flag and "got the sack".

Parkin won 2 flags in 5 years - and was given the sack. Walls lost his job 34 games after winning a flag.

Ratten is a favourite son no doubt - and even I think its still a little too early to be talking about giving him the heave ho - but Greg Swann is not doing his job properly if he finds that any high credentialled coach is available and doesnt explore the possibility.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I can't believe how many people are qestions Ratts already. I am not saying he is a great or poor coach yet, as it is impossible to tell after such a short period of time. We have seen changes for the positive, but then so we should have with the improved list and natural player development.

By this time next year we should have a far better view, but until then it is completely unrealistic to judge him accurately.

At this stage he is doing better than Harvey, Knights,Bailey and arguably Lyon

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Ecclesiastes 1:4, "One generation passes away, and another generation comes: but The Blues abide forever."

Surely not reeling out the A list there are you?
Our club needs to envisage Ratts being as tactically astute as Clarkson, Eade, Worsfold.
Clarkson made some very tough decisions in his first year, Eade has rejuvenated the Doggies and Worlsfold built the Eagles from scratch.

We need to do some crystal balling here and assess whether he can be one of the coaching greats. He's made an OK start, but this business is only going to get more ruthless and we need a proven gun coach to mould a young team to play premiership footy.
That should be the standard- accept nothing less.

I don't see this as a for/against Ratts debate. In fact it's already resembling a Fev thread where according to some you can't love the club if you question Fev.

I've stated my support for the job Ratts is doing at length in the other thread up at the moment with Synbad (who simply refuses to listen to reason ).

I see this question as what's best for the club.

Yes, Ratts could be good, and IMHO what we have seen so far this year is positive.

The question is, can he take this group as far and as fast as Worsfold (or Craig, Williams from my POV)? Of that I am not convinced.

As others have said - the club's history shows they won't sit still if a shorter path to success presents itself.

Sick of the old "its always the coach's fault / credit".

When teams win the coach is a genius and when they loose he cant coach. Bomber took 8 years to win they flag and got nearly sacked more then once....

Worsfold is a great coach (?) - well how well are WC going who still have most of their premiership players playing? You say, well they dont have Judd and Cousins...ahhh, so its the players? And why don't the players work like "a swiss clock" now? And should he have won more then one flag ?

Pagan won 2 flags and reached 8 prelims in 10 years, so he must be a good coach?

Look, my point is: The role of the coach in isolation is wastly overrated!! It's mainly the list - the cattle - you have.

Bulding a winning team is not just the coach, its the whole club and especially the whole football department with recruiting, trading(i.e. list manangement) and player development the key.

I think people are totally unreasonable and the "sack the coach" knee jerk is just "so Richmond".... and how has that worked for them (they should sack Miller and not Solarium IMHO).

Who was the best available Coach when Ratts was appointed

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

According to the selection committee it was Ratten.

Yet to find out if he was the best.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

He's doing better than Clarkson did in the early days, and now we all think he's some kind of tactical wizard, albeit a little angry one.

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"I had to eat"

Worsfold had a once in a lifetime midfield and a super ruck and defence. He won a flag but in his flag year, the forward set-up was poor. How is he coaching this year??
If Roos was a possibility i'd say Ok, not Worsfold

Correct, Clarkson was slammed for playing ugly tempo football initially. He nearly did not get his first contract extended. Hawks fans said he could not coach. Now he is a genius.

Last year Eade was nearly sacked, now he is a tactical genius.


Its the list stupid!! You dont need "the best" coach, you need the best recruiter, the best football manager, the best development coaches etc. etc.

why worsfold? imo just standing on the outside looking in he should have won at least 2 premierships with the team he had. i know he had to play a role into developing his players to become so good but is he that good of a coach? imo the best coach atm is malthouse closely followed by roos.

i think we have to give ratts at least till the end of this year and then next year if we're still a crap side halfway through the season, then we should consider chasing a big name coach. until then, the board should support ratts as much as possible.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

Worsfold !?! didnt he just watch when he and the rest of the world new his players were up to no good off the field. Ruining their lives and their clubs reputation.

Thats stuff keeps the skin folds down.....cheats.

No thanks !

Go and wash your mouth out!!!!!!!!!! Surely you are not serious????????

Look, I really hope it works out for Ratts, because I think he is showing signs of being a good coach one day....... That being said I have always had a soft spot for Worsfold and would love him to coach the club. Had great respect for him as a player, a leader, an assistant at Carlton and I think he treated the whole Judd coming home to Victoria situation very well too. Could you imagine Mark Williams' reaction if Judd had left Port Adelaide to go to Victoria?

Ratts has a good opportunity of showing his worth with the rest of this year. I would expect that if he gets us to 8 wins for the year he will be pretty safe. Not only that, but he will need to show that we are going forward as a TEAM, and not just cheap wins against shit sides with our best players starring.

Come on Ratts, you can do it!!!!!!

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

This post topic is absolutely ridiculous. Yes the club did speak to Worsfold last year, early last year when they first spoke to Judd. They were not overly impressed and are not chasing him at the moment - absolute!

They also spoke to Paul Roos last year and were told that after Sydney he will not coach further.

They have committed to Ratts for 2 years and will see it through, AND I can assure you the committee is very happy with the progress made this year knowing that we will be very well drilled in and would have developed nicely for the next couple of years.

Besides if the club was to try and get the best available wouldnt they speak with Mark Thompson? I can assure you they have not.

Just another rumour!

Leigh Matthews.

Interesting debate.

Ever since Pratt returned, he has made a point of getting top people for the job. He got arguably the best CEO in Swann. He then got a top football manager in Icke. He even got the best player in the land.

He brought in Ashman and de Bolfo, and transformed the fitness department, including Justin Cordy.

AFAIC, there are only two positions that don't fit the bill. The first is recruitment. It is generally recognised that Wells, Beatson and Clayton are probably top of the tree here. Will they target one of these? There was a thread on here recently to suggest that might be the case.

The second is the senior coach. Regardless of what one thinks of Ratten, as Josh Kaplan alluded to, the process to appoint him was straight out of the St Kilda handbook, and that's not something to be proud of.

I don't know if Ratten will make a good coach, only time will tell. But I ask this question...if Pratt / Swann got wind that Matthews or Roos or Malthouse or Worsfold wanted a change of club, and wanted to be in Melbourne, do you really think they'd stick with Ratten? I suspect not.

Pratt / Swann will go for the best possible option. They may very well decide that Worsfold (should be be looking to change) is a better option that Ratten, who is yet to prove himself.

For the record, West Coast finished 13th (2000) and 14th (2001) in the two seasons prior to Worsfold's arrival. WC record under Worsfold (after home and away):

2002 - 8
2003 - 7
2004 - 7
2005 - 2
2006 - 1
2007 - 3

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!