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 Post subject: Re: Good Luck Denis.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:13 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Electric Blue wrote:
Thanks for the memories...actually maybe not.

But I do believe that Denis gave his all, his failure was not due to lack of trying and his support of some players was amazing, this is despite words to the contarray.

I had the advantage of being in prematch sessions a couple of times and a couple of chances to sit in the coaches box during games and Denis was always fair and encouraging.

Wrong man at the wrong time. He was really happy to be at Carlton when he first arrived but the rug was pulled out from him from day one.

I wish him well, and trust now that we all have what we want that all true blues treat him with some decency now.



Yep .... well said!!


Good luck Denis!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I hated him when he was at Carlton and thought he should have been gone at the end of last year.

But now seeing his performance today I admire him.

He could have easily taken some down with him but held his head high with no vindictiveness.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Gointocarlton wrote:
I would like to make some comments re the Pagan sacking. I was watching his press conference and despite what you may think of him, Denis Pagan is a class act IMHO. Yes his record at Carlton is deplorable and it brought down his demise as he was the man in charge from a football point of view, end of story. But I noticed his body language at the presser and he appears to have copped it on the chin and moved on, no hard feelings. Couple of points:
1. I noticed he turned up to the presser with his CFC tracksuit top on, still promoting the Club despite being sacked (I distinctly remember Thomas turned to his presser in civis, no StK attire and seemed aloof, bitter and disinterested).
2. On his way out, Denis put an arm around Swanny and gave him a pat on the back as if to say, chin up mate, you were just doing your job, business is business, nothing personal. It was genuine no doubt about it.

You can look at it a number of ways, but I reckon he tried best but just wasnt up to it. He was doing what he thought was the best for the Club and that quitting was not an option as it was taking the cheap, easy way out. I have seen a few nasty, personal comments which are unclassy and warranted. Lets all show the footy world that we, Carlton Supporters, are as classy as Denis and are respectful, decent people. I think we should all show him abit of respect, wish him all the best in his future endeavours and thank him for his efforts even if they werent good enough in the end. I was thinking about it today, Denis never publicly bagged the Club, the players, the admin, the umpires, the AFL or anyone else. He just went about his job and tried to make a difference but failed.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."


Denis should have done unto others like we wanted him to do and like Daniher and Connolly did and resigned with some dignity..we had to sack him... and he would be wanting Greg Swann to sign off on that last cheque and make sure its in the mail and Swann has the right address.
Thank him for his efforts?...lucky for him he wasnt coaching some South American soccer team.......

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Good luck Den Den dont think anyone could have done any better with this team. (Den at least u can sit back in 5yrs and say hey i bought young gibbs, murphy walker irish to the club)You have bought in some youth and we need to watch them blossom. You are a very dignified and professional good luck

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Last edited by sandramd on Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Dennis tried his best, but his best wasn't good enough. Unfortunately it took us 5 years and a lot o' cash to realise this.
Lets hope the kids can recover from the shellshock of the last few years.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:30 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Denis should have done unto others like we wanted him to do and like Daniher and Connolly did and resigned with some dignity...


Could D & C have given up when the going was too hard?


2 sides to every story.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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So they did not recieve money then? They said to the club - nay we were wrong, keep the money, sorry. :garthp:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:53 pm 
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formerly Josh Kaplan

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Elwood, would you resign' and ultimately forego 750K?
Are you being serious?

Denis handled himself absolutely perfectly- admitted that he would have sacked himself had the situation been reversed, and ultimately wasnt willing to turn his back on 3/4 of a million dollars to do it..

If all sacked coaches can carry themselves like Denis did today, then I think thats a good thing


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Josh Kaplan wrote:
Elwood, would you resign' and ultimately forego 750K?
Are you being serious?

Denis handled himself absolutely perfectly- admitted that he would have sacked himself had the situation been reversed, and ultimately wasnt willing to turn his back on 3/4 of a million dollars to do it..

If all sacked coaches can carry themselves like Denis did today, then I think thats a good thing


So no matter how much we were flogged.... Denis handled himself brilliantly cos he was waiting for someone to pull the pin on him... instead of taking the walk himself??

Ok so he handled himself brilliantly but he murdered the rest of us.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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he murdered you? :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:13 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Synbad wrote:
Josh Kaplan wrote:
Elwood, would you resign' and ultimately forego 750K?
Are you being serious?

Denis handled himself absolutely perfectly- admitted that he would have sacked himself had the situation been reversed, and ultimately wasnt willing to turn his back on 3/4 of a million dollars to do it..

If all sacked coaches can carry themselves like Denis did today, then I think thats a good thing


So no matter how much we were flogged.... Denis handled himself brilliantly cos he was waiting for someone to pull the pin on him... instead of taking the walk himself??

Ok so he handled himself brilliantly but he murdered the rest of us.


Have to agree cannot be sentimental the facts are he was paid what 3Mill over 5 years so you would expect to see improvements regardless of what he started with

Cannot hide the facts this club has not progressed anywhere near what it should and for a coach who is paid 3Mill i just expect that we would have seen gradual improvements. He may not have had the scrutiny if he was being paid $200K per year like Laidly who has to do it hard way and get results and make what i consider an average list to 2nd on the ladder even after trades like Jono hay and some other stuff ups they still achieved

Sadly Dennis could not achieve anything close to these results.

So he went out with dignity but again am i sorry he left

NO

He had to to go to allow the Blues to move on we have had many changes Pagan one of the last pieces remove Mitch who will go when Blues remove Bullants and hopefully we loose most of the baggage of the last 5 years

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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he also had 4 presidents
2 ceos
2 years of draft penalties
a broke club
and the support of everyone 8)

bastard!
the club is lucky to alive I tells ya! Dirty rotten skunk!

Hang 'im high!
















do not foresake me o my darlin'
on this our weddin' dayee.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:22 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
he also had 4 presidents
2 ceos
2 years of draft penalties
a broke club
and the support of everyone 8)

bastard!
the club is lucky to alive I tells ya! Dirty rotten skunk!

Hang 'im high!
















do not foresake me o my darlin'
on this our weddin' dayee.....



Geez he was given a fair go reading all that ....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Laurie Kerr
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Josh Kaplan wrote:
Elwood, would you resign' and ultimately forego 750K?
Are you being serious?

Denis handled himself absolutely perfectly- admitted that he would have sacked himself had the situation been reversed, and ultimately wasnt willing to turn his back on 3/4 of a million dollars to do it..

If all sacked coaches can carry themselves like Denis did today, then I think thats a good thing


Denis' two motives for today:

1. Maximise cash payout

2. Try like hell to maintain his currency for another coaching job

He handled himself perfectly to progress himself. If he slagged off the club or the players no one would touch him with a 10 foot barge pole. Don't be fooled that is his 'natural' persona.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:25 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I could have added and the undying support of Synners for the first 2 years 8)

truth is like history tells us

this club is shit

its coach is shit

when the presidents are shit

he copped three in a row

that did as much damage to this club as he has (or as little :wink: )

the fourth did what we all knew he must

the rest is a can-can

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:33 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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It is very easy and quite understandable to be upset about the mistakes Denis has made, but we need to move on and forget about him as soon as we can, as bad as those mistakes were.

Just be glad that it's over.

He will be viewed a little more kindly when we start to come good.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:16 am
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bottom line is most of us without hindsight would have no idea.

We wre all off our faces with joy when Denis got hired.

If Pagan was winning he could belittle as many players as he liked - it would simply be the successful coach laying down the law.

He was given a long go under trying circumstances and got paid well. Dont blame him for taking the money - thats nonsense.

The new board did the only responsible thing - stopped the bleeding

I just hope the next guy is successfull, the team develops and we have some luck - If not I hope the board acts quickly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:59 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Handled his sacking with dignity and class.... pity a few people here can't learn from that and do the same.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:06 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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A gentleman who has handled himself extremely well today adn gone up in a lot of people's estimation. A good coach who came to the Blues in a our darkest times and never bagged the club for lack of players or support. It can't have been easy over the last few years where there was no money a team who lacked onfield leaders and supporters who demand success. Developed and introduced to the team Simpson Walker Setanta Bentick Betts Carrazzo. Just the wrong time for him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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He tried his hardest even though it wasnt enough.

Watching yesterdays game what can Lappin, Kouta etc say about themselves.

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