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Should Pagan be Sacked?
Yes (NOW) 57%  57%  [ 106 ]
Yes (At the end of season) 36%  36%  [ 67 ]
No (There is no better man for the Job) 6%  6%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 185
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:28 pm 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4771
He cannot just walk because of his contract. So if we want him he stays, simple as that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:48 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:31 pm
Posts: 280
[
First this pearl of wisdom


quote="maxyblue"]
Synbad wrote:
From what i understand...
Pagan is gone
Voss will most likely be coach.

Now i dont know if theyll get rid of Pagan before the end of the year... but he wont be here next year.


[/quote]

Gee- did you get that from the inner sanctum or one of the thousands of media reports that have been bandying this around for the past month?




Then this:-

"A contract is a contract.
So he will have to be paid out... unless they settle,.
Im sure Dick is smart enough to try and work something out first."

One comment is completely contradictory to the other!

But then again, you do manage to fool people with your "speak" by saying things like
"From what I understand...."
and
"Voss will "most likely" be coach.

And firstly "Pagan is gone" but then 'a contract is a contract"

Then "he will have to be paid out (but another disclaimer for all you believers in this God) unless they settle.

So, in essence, he has said nothing that is not in myriad paper, radio and tv reports over the past month, and yet he still continues to thrive on his notoriety in here by giving disclaiming statements, and the sheople continue to follow him like the Dalia Lama.

This is classical big-noting if I have ever heard it.

Sheesh!

And if these things don't come to pass, all our holiness has to say is that he has been told the wrong things.

This crap is so flower annoying and laughable.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:33 am 
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Laurie Kerr
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:30 am
Posts: 133
Location: Beautiful 1 day, premiership the next !!
Barnesy wrote:
If not sacked now in the next 9 weeks these things can happen:

- our brand is hurt even more

- perspective players are further put off looking at joining the club

- our kids with upside will look more closely at leaving

- the development of our kids with be further dented

How many future generation of blues supporters / members

ie. 7 , 8 , 9, 10 year olds need to be taunted at school over the next few weeks because we deliver insipid performances, however, living in the knowledge that we may still get a priority pick...

No point waiting.


I agree.

I have never heard Pagan take responsibility for anything since coming to Carlton. All I keep hearing are excuses.

What kind of coach comes out and says after 2 weeks that he still can't work out why we lost by 100 points against the hawks. This is pathetic.

If he had any decency @ all he should have resigned a long time ago. Why he has'nt been sacked, I have no idea, I can't think of 1 good reason/benefit as to why he should stay even 1 week longer.

He is the biggest cancer @ our club and yet he is the one that is still here. I really don't understand, and if you can't tell I am really frustrated by it all.



Pagan cannot go soon enough for my liking.

Ratten is firming as a favorite of mine to take over.

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2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:45 am 
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Laurie Kerr
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:30 am
Posts: 133
Location: Beautiful 1 day, premiership the next !!
Sniff Wilson wrote:
We will win 5 games this year. Miss the priority pick. Not be able to trade fev, re-sign lance, lose a couple of kids and keep pagan.



Mark my words


Reading that was like having a living nightmare. I pray it does not become reality.

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1. Walker,
2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:51 am 
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Laurie Kerr
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:30 am
Posts: 133
Location: Beautiful 1 day, premiership the next !!
The_Price_Is_Wrong wrote:
Beginning a sack Pagan petition. Or at least if we continue or losing trot over the next couple of weeks.

We shouldnt be losing like this! Yes Fev was a fair dinkum dipstick on the weekend, but it's time we looked at where the real flower problem lies!

No, we're not expected to be worldbeaters this season, but what we've put to the table the last couple of weeks has been pathetic!

And its clear that the problem stems from above the shoulders.. The Pagan mentality of saving games in the past and trying to protect his ass, recruiting the likes of Cain Ackland were pathetic!! And a 3 year deal, what a flower joke!!

For so long we've been on here on Talking Carlton, pushing for a new coach, observing the playing list lose confidence and faith.

Honestly guys, this is bullshit!! At the end of the day us supporters have been let down for 6 flower years now!! 2002 was the start of a nightmare, now we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but continue to stagnate due to a game plan with no direction, a coach who has become burnt out (due to what he inherited though believe)..

Due to this he has lost it, We need to show the club that we have had enough, Melbourne bit the bullet and sacked their coach knowing the time was up, Neales been much better than Pagan over the last few years.

Us supporters and members have the power to fight against the board and spill the board, The end of the year is too long away!!

I dont blame Fevola for being at his wits end atm!! Who could?? WE ARE NOT MOVING FORWARD, we are moving forward at a very SLOW pace.

We need a young coach with fresh ideas, we need leadership, we need a 'no excuses' mentality, the mentality which us a force to be reckoned with for decades!!

Fev must have been having a ball over the last few years, being the big fish in a polluted pond, ok, ive added up his successes since 2002, and we can add Lappin, Kouta etc.. to that list..

Ok, since 2002 we have won 28, Drawn 2, Lost 123

flower pathetic!! Ok, thats the reality!

Ok, statistics sometimes lie, but we now see we have had a gameplan which has worked pretty well, but just like the wizzer cup of 2005, once our game plan has been worked out, WE HAVE NO PLAN B!!!

The very things holding this great club back, and keeping us down the bottom, we must act now!! Imagine a Malthouse at the club what influence he would have on youngsters such as Kennedy, Hartlett, Blackwell, who have been absolutely murdered by our MC!!

Guys, i think we should very seriously consider beginning a petition for Pagan to be removed!

177pts in 2 weeks, with a team as capable as ours is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! And what are we gonna say Fev cost us 177pts over 2 weeks??

Bullshit! In fact he was showing good form in the first half last week before we put the table that insipid performance.

.........LETS START A PETITION FOR PAGAN TO BE REMOVED...........

I love this club and im sick to death of the mediocre image Pagan generates.

:evil:


great post, where do i sign, it sums up how i feel quite well.

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1. Walker,
2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:18 am 
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Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:36 pm
Posts: 1289
Location: here
Quote from "The Age" this morning...from DP's mouth:

"I don't sort of sit down closely enough with them to really answer that accurately," he said.

Here lies the problem.

He is too far removed from the playing group.

Communication is minimal.

He has no genuine understanding of what the players feel.

@#$%&! I hate him!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:56 am 
Offline
Bob Chitty

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:10 am
Posts: 881
Location: Netherlands
bluebeard wrote:
Quote from "The Age" this morning...from DP's mouth:

"I don't sort of sit down closely enough with them to really answer that accurately," he said.

Here lies the problem.

He is too far removed from the playing group.

Communication is minimal.

He has no genuine understanding of what the players feel.

flower I hate him!


Should be sacked based on this comment alone - pathetic excuse for a coach.

Should be sacked for the problems with he and Mitchell as well. I don't give a dam about who shafted who - and the end of the day he has the more senior role and should be showing leadership - yes DP that's what leadership is about. - No doubt he is at the races today - he couldn't give a stuff about CFC


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:13 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:00 pm
Posts: 4055
Location: Recovering from the 1st effort
amers wrote:
The_Price_Is_Wrong wrote:
Beginning a sack Pagan petition. Or at least if we continue or losing trot over the next couple of weeks.

We shouldnt be losing like this! Yes Fev was a fair dinkum dipstick on the weekend, but it's time we looked at where the real flower problem lies!

No, we're not expected to be worldbeaters this season, but what we've put to the table the last couple of weeks has been pathetic!

And its clear that the problem stems from above the shoulders.. The Pagan mentality of saving games in the past and trying to protect his ass, recruiting the likes of Cain Ackland were pathetic!! And a 3 year deal, what a flower joke!!

For so long we've been on here on Talking Carlton, pushing for a new coach, observing the playing list lose confidence and faith.

Honestly guys, this is bullshit!! At the end of the day us supporters have been let down for 6 flower years now!! 2002 was the start of a nightmare, now we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but continue to stagnate due to a game plan with no direction, a coach who has become burnt out (due to what he inherited though believe)..

Due to this he has lost it, We need to show the club that we have had enough, Melbourne bit the bullet and sacked their coach knowing the time was up, Neales been much better than Pagan over the last few years.

Us supporters and members have the power to fight against the board and spill the board, The end of the year is too long away!!

I dont blame Fevola for being at his wits end atm!! Who could?? WE ARE NOT MOVING FORWARD, we are moving forward at a very SLOW pace.

We need a young coach with fresh ideas, we need leadership, we need a 'no excuses' mentality, the mentality which us a force to be reckoned with for decades!!

Fev must have been having a ball over the last few years, being the big fish in a polluted pond, ok, ive added up his successes since 2002, and we can add Lappin, Kouta etc.. to that list..

Ok, since 2002 we have won 28, Drawn 2, Lost 123

flower pathetic!! Ok, thats the reality!

Ok, statistics sometimes lie, but we now see we have had a gameplan which has worked pretty well, but just like the wizzer cup of 2005, once our game plan has been worked out, WE HAVE NO PLAN B!!!

The very things holding this great club back, and keeping us down the bottom, we must act now!! Imagine a Malthouse at the club what influence he would have on youngsters such as Kennedy, Hartlett, Blackwell, who have been absolutely murdered by our MC!!

Guys, i think we should very seriously consider beginning a petition for Pagan to be removed!

177pts in 2 weeks, with a team as capable as ours is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! And what are we gonna say Fev cost us 177pts over 2 weeks??

Bullshit! In fact he was showing good form in the first half last week before we put the table that insipid performance.

.........LETS START A PETITION FOR PAGAN TO BE REMOVED...........

I love this club and im sick to death of the mediocre image Pagan generates.

:evil:


great post, where do i sign, it sums up how i feel quite well.


HIT.NAIL.HEAD

Last year when the petition was up and about I wasnt too keen. i was willing to give him a chance but at what point do you draw a line in the sand. What other job would let you plod on with pathetic results and no sign of improvement despite having 5 years to turn thigs around. I know we've had a poor list, draft penalties etc but nobody is expecting a premiership, just an end to the 100 pt+ beltings and some hope for the future.

With a record membership coming off the back of 2 consecutive wooden spoons, after having gone 100+ years without ever having gotten the spoon, i recklon we, the fans and members are doing our bit.

Lets not all hang Fev out to dry as the scapegoat. End of the day he is just one of 18 players, its not his fault we are where we are. Something stinks at MCLP and the rot is getting worse. What was Dick Pratt's line about anybody not getting fired up enthusiastically will be fired enthusiastically??? Well big Dick my man, time to make good on the promise!!!!!

Martin Pike on SEN last night said Voss and Pagan were sitting next to each other at the private party for Glen Archer's 300th. Said he didnt take too much notice of it but that the word around the industry for a long time has been that Pagan is gone and that Voss is the likely successor. old news i know. Maybe we are all being a little too hasty and keeping pagan is really our best chance to get the PP

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:20 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
Can we have a Poll created? Sack Pagan or not?

I think it is a joke that he can't control a player and he blames that player due to his management skills.

I have finally had a gutful of pagan and want him gone.

Fev will go to a new team and kick 100goals a year, l promise you that

Lets start signing petitions. If we get enough members to sign then he may go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:24 am 
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Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:39 am
Posts: 30269
Location: riding shotgun on Agros Karma Train
Apart from all the comments about Pagan mentioned already - ie his coaching ability - one thing that stands out to me is that he has never really been a part of the club - he is really just an employee, working on his own little job - compare that to other coaches (or ex-coaches) like Daniher who promoted the club and showed a passion for it.

It is very rare that Pagan shows any heart for the Blues, to him it is just a job. He has never been part of the Carlton Football Club


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:31 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:38 am
Posts: 5821
Location: home
Does anyone think it is possible that Pagan will stay on as a mentor to someone like Voss coming in next year. Maybe getting some value out of his last year of contract rather than just paying it out?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:47 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:20 am
Posts: 8172
Location: PMQ
Denis wouldnt come at being behind the scenes.


glory monger.



but at carlton......where's the glory?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:53 am 
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Horrie Clover
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:41 am
Posts: 395
Location: Juddville
Pagan gone...not behind the scenes...not as a mentor...nothing...just to disappear as if he was never there. Which based on his performance as coach...he really was never there anyway. The quicker he is shown the door the better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:59 am 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:55 pm
Posts: 776
Location: UK
I have no inside knowledge, no contacts nor even the psychic abilities of blueman.

But I think it's pretty clear Pagan is gone. It's not a matter of if, just a matter of when.

And luckily we finally have a leadership team in place that will do this properly. For too long strategic decisions at the club have been made for short-term reasons. Not anymore, Pratt and Swann are in this with a long-term view.

The main factor in determining when Pagan goes really has nothing to do with Pagan, or to do with on-field performance. What determines when Pagan goes will be when Pratt and Swann have a plan in place to take the club forward. When it happens, it will be swift and done properly. It will be done with a clear plan for the future, I'm confident of that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:38 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25192
Location: Bondi Beach
Well put Mordan.

I am 100% sure that Swanny and Pratt have their thinking hats on and will make the right decision at the right time...I'm sure they have options, and will only settle on the best option. Pratty isn't one for settling for second best.

I have faith in Pratt, Swann and Icke to make the right call.

2007 is gawn. I really don't think we'll make the finals this year. :wink:It'll be tough to win every game from here. I hope each game gives us an honourable loss (with the kids playing).

Pagan is gawn.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:53 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:36 pm
Posts: 1289
Location: here
Pratt needs to take control NOW!

I am sure he has a plan but he needs to act NOW!

We are sure to struggle getting to the membership record in 2008 if the Carlton brand is humiliated anymore.

Pagan is doing permenant damage as we speak.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:09 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
Sniff Wilson wrote:
We will win 5 games this year. Miss the priority pick. Not be able to trade fev, re-sign lance, lose a couple of kids and keep pagan.



Mark my words


dane takes up following soccer full time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:34 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:55 pm
Posts: 776
Location: UK
bluebeard wrote:
Pratt needs to take control NOW!

I am sure he has a plan but he needs to act NOW!

We are sure to struggle getting to the membership record in 2008 if the Carlton brand is humiliated anymore.

Pagan is doing permenant damage as we speak.


Settle down. Whether it happens now or in 3 weeks or even at the end of the season will be long forgotten by this time next year. If we rush it, and cock it up then it may have an affect on next year, do it right and when it happens will have little in the way of long term repercussions.


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 Post subject: thoughts...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:52 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3457
I firmly believe that the song-and-dance about Fev this week is all about demonstrating how solid the club is off-field. We're saying to potential coaches (Voss?) that we're the sort of club that takes no guff on or off-field (unlike, say, Collingwood).

So, we're already trying to demonstrate our 'desireability' to potentials.

Pagan will almost certainly get the chop if we lose to Melbourne. They may then use the closing weeks of the season to audition someone like Ratten.

However if Voss is our preferred candidate and we're already into him... Maybe we'll invite him down to check the place out and start meeting the players? If we sack Pagan that is...

The trickiest thing has got to be the timing. If we don't sack him, okay. But if we do... When? Does Pagan get to make decisions about drafting and trading? Does the MC? Does the new coach get to come in and do that?

When is the best time?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
Lets get 100 votes of Yes then I'm calling the Herald.

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