Sacking Mulhearns as the conditioning coach when many of our players have gone under the knife would suggest that they are not being given the normal supervision required for our players rehabilitation, especially given there is no replacement.

Before I consider the club's action as negligent I would prefer to know what program the players are committed to for their rehabiltation, by whom, and what their qualifications are. Then I would want to know the difference between this rehabilitation program and the one which Mulhearns (or similar) would have been supervising.

If it is deemed as negligent, then I would suggest that animals in our zoos receive more intense supervision after surgery, and that the board has failed in their duty of care in looking after their most important assetts. But I need to know the facts, before I get too hysterical and angry.

On Mulhearns, he has a reputation for controlling or taking precautionary measures to have the lowest case of OP and soft tissue injury for players under his conditioning supervision. If so, is it perhaps due to the fact that he doesn't allow players to push themselves too far for this to happen, and maybe as a result this is one reason why our players can't last 4 quarters? If so, you can't have it both ways. It's fraught with failure either way.

Did he fail to account for the fitness required of players to play competitively in the first place, because he was too concerned about the soft tissue and OP stuff and his reputation? Very important question.

We need to know why he was dismissed before we can say whether it was a good idea or not.

Saving money at the risk of substandard player welfare, conditioning and general development in elite sport is just stupid as it neglects the basic needs of professional sportspeople with a desire to be the best.

Anyone know?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Good post Bondi.

PS: I don't know, i know nuthink.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

so the board doesnt trust the senior coaches judgement?????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad wrote



That has been proven to be the case time and time again.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

One of the things that gets me is this.

Denis preaches about loyalty and what have you. Elshaug and Mulkearns, after having been loyal to Denis for over 10 years, have now been hung out to dry by him in order for him to save his own skin. Whilst I'm not saying that sacking these guys was the wrong thing to do (on the contrary, Elshaug should have been the first to be fired), it just shows that Denis is in serious self-preservation mode if he's backstabbing his own loyal lieutenants.

Smacks of a self-interested, desperado who is going all out to try to save his job.

Thing is, I think the players will see through it. If Pagan recruits hacks like Gardiner etc., then the players will just go on strike if they really don't like Denis. We saw what happened when Norman and Angwin were busted and Angwin immediately sacked. It was the senior player group who wanted him gone and ultimately, they got their way. If Pagan goes against the wishes of the player group (assuming that they don't want Gardiner), then he's as good as gone.

If the players want Gardiner (and hell, Fevola has gone TFS on national television to claim that he does), then you'd wonder what kind of rocks the players have in their heads.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Mr Garratt i agree with most of what you are saying here...

Im all for Pagan being sacked and im pissed he's still here.. but of course Pagan is going to save his own skin! If it was up to him, Mulkearns and Denis' YES man Elshaug would still be here!!!

But the board made those decisions! Clearly though a pathetic attempt to cover up how incompetent they are !

PS. BTW that avatar looks ridiculous! Nobody takes that hippie seriously!!

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In other news.. Melbourne has stepped up its Bid for Whitnall.. offering a 2nd round pick and it's promise to Whitnall to offer him a spot up forward with a Mega box of Krispy Kremes!

Speak for yourself BB101, a politicain with a shred of integrity is unusual but good. And what's wrong with hippies? Tune in, turn on drop out - it'll do you good. Maybe we need more hippies on the Carlton Board, Abbie Hoffman levitating the Pentagon, or causing a frenzy by throwing dollar bills from the balcony of the NY stock exchange. Bit of creative chaos might get us a some positive publicity. Be better than the straight dull conservatives on the Board at the moment.

It would seem that way hey!

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Agree the club is a farce... those from the board who tried to organise the coup against Pagn should do the honourable thing and resign. Theose whose only interest is to continue to sow disent, should also leave the club or go support antoher club.

Its hard enough picking up the pieces left without certain people continually sniping and hitting from behind.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

do you know who they are Mark?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Just want to make a couple of points

1. The board should have made a decision one way or antoher on Dennis, not continually change its mind. It makes us look stupid.

2. The people trying to get rid of Dennis are the same people who backed Elliot to the hilt, which makes thier judgement suspect. The leaker or leakers should be sought out and asked to resign. If they still want to make changes then they can form a ticket and present thier position to the members. The current situation is intolerable.

3. Having watched the team play this year, it is my assessment that it was a team that for the most part worked its butt off for little reward. I was very proud of the effort that the team as a team put in. At no time did they display the sort of attitude we saw in Dennis's first year when he had clearly lost the players. In fact I saw a team that was desperate to improve and win.

4. The current position both financially and on the field has no 'quick fix' it will take a lot of hard work and persistance against incredible odds. What need is for everyone to be pulling in the one direction, even if you disagree with it. The constant bickering and infighting will continue to hold us back and ridicule to the wider football community.

5. In sort let Dennis do his job and if you do not like it, then challange the board in the appropriate manner and present viable options.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

The leaker has to be Denis Pagan.......

Think about it, he knew what was coming and set to disrupt it the only way possible.......

My source who told me these rumblings of backstabing before they became public would of got his info from Pagan himself or those around him (family and friends)....

It is possible Pagan did his best to throw the spanner in the works, he is an old head after all.....

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Agreed. Denis was also the caller on the first call to SOS.

About 9 months ago, I wrote:

"Someone with an axe to grind wants to cause some trouble. If this were a Sherlock Holmes novel, the obvious suspect would be Scott Camporeale.

He is the only one with an obvious axe to grind with the Club and may be wanting to piss everyone off by stirring the pot and leaking information (even exagerating a little for dramatic effect) to the media.

If it's not him, then there's a rat in the ranks, and that is truely worrying."

It would appear I was hasty in implicating Camporeale, as the rat is still stirring up trouble, probably with a few more friends on his or her side too.

Like last time, when Mike Sheehan admited to CK he had no proof and reported as "fact" things he'd been leaked, he was the first to kick off the media speculation. It was hilarious to watch Caroline Wilson get all shirty as she tried to get back onto even ground with Sheehan even though she didn't have any of the information he had.

The rat has been stirring up trouble for a while now, and has been destabilising the club by leaking partially correct information, obviously to satisfy some warped agenda they have.

John Elliot.

Mark the board has been using the elliot 'Bogey man ' card long enough.. hes under your beds and all that.

Thats just plain ridiculous.

#1 The board assigned Gleeson and Kernahan the job to do a foory department review.
#2 Kernahan and Gleeson did exactly that.
#3 Recommendations were made.. after talking to players and winning 2 wooden spoons in 4 years....etc
#4 The board complained about the money needed.
#5The money was found away from the board.
#6 The board was about to vote to give Pagan the sack.
#7 they did flip flop flip flop 10-0
#8 Do you really believe Pagan will see out his contract and that the board has real faith in him?
#9 If he wont why bring it to a head and have the club go through this again with everything it entails?
#10 is that Elliots fault again when that happens?

Its a weak board looking for excuses and for as long as we have a board looking for excuses and not making hard decisions were [REDACTED]!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

so if pagan serves his 2 years, would he get offered an extension (1 year max), if he doesnt get an extension then whats the point of keeping him?
i have no doubt that his last year of his contract with us, we will have improved on the ladder ( actually i do have doubts)

So i really want to know if he has a long-term future with us? if not, go to the aints coz he`ll be wasting time.

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All at Carlton are Equal, Except some are More Equal than others

Let Denis do his job?

He has shown he is incapable of doing the job to the level required. The board had to tell him-

How the team should play
What style of game to employ
Who to play ie. the kids
Who his assistants can be
Who his assistants cant be
How his department should be structured


Even the board know he isnt capable of doing his job without holding his hand.
We have one of the highest paid coaches in the AFL and he cant be trusted to do his job.

Some of us dont follow the blind faith argument Mark. Do so by all means but dont expect me to.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Give Smorgon the boot..... I can't trust a man with a haircut that bad.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

BM, with all the rumblings it seems point 3 gets lost or forgotten or both!
I don't feel I can judge PAgan as I just don't have the knowledge....All I can see is that there doesn't seem to be a clear plan put out to the members of what's going on....this is the ONE and ONLY problem! (albeit a biggie).
Said it before....
Have an aim...
Make a plan...
Make the decisions...
Clearly show to all that those decisions are to acjieve that aim...
Everyone will understand that....

we are all arguing all over the place becuase because (I believe) we don't understand what's happeneing (ie what the aim or the plan are!!!!)

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee