Everyone understands where we are with the rebuilding.
Brown talks about the lack of development.
This has been a huge problem for us...

Its easier to blame the players than it is to blame the coaches.

Pagan always blames the players and their lack of skills.


so Brown understands the issues better than some people are giving him credit for.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yeah spot on Synbad!

I'm under the impression that Brown is just plain NOT ACCEPTING the bullshit excuses that both Denis & the Board are dishing out for both our on field & off field woes. And i'm with him.

Fev gave proof of this last night.....................the players are screaming out for some belief from this club, and i just don't think they are getting any!!!!! I think that has alot to do with our poor development.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Frasers right on the money

Hes getting involved as he knows best, offer of cash and names that are definitely no worse than the present incumbents.

I am wrapt cos i see it as a ray of sunshine,

The past weeks actions are unforgiveable, everybody at footy clubs preaches accountability but what i have witnessed is one of the worst off field board room fiascos in my memory.

I am absolutely certain, without a doubt that this board as a whole isnt up to it, sub standard. They may come out and say this and that but actions speak louder and they have just confirmed what many of us suspected..

Call it swagger, call it arrogance call it attitude, call it whatever we need it back desperately !!!!

we're wrote



Business is still run by people, whether arrogant or not, but it is money that allows them to do the things that are needed to run the club professionally. It's the off field and on field that needs $$$$ to improve our culture, brand, facilities and our bargaining strength. Without it we're paupers...and I can't see anyone coming to the party other than Carlton people with their associates (or corporate sponsors)

Salary cap or not, arrogance or call it whatever, lets remember what we were when we were arrogant (I'd rather call it confident) and consider the following:

Synbad wrote



That pool cost money back then, and was the envy of all other clubs, the result was footballers wanted to be part of it. But now we need a new one that reflects professionalism and state of the art.

Consider what money can do to improve Carlton.

Training Facilities

Development Coaches

Investments to secure our future

Marketing Campaign

Boot Camps

Sports Psychologists

Motivational speakers

Emancipation from the AFL


Having Browny come out, along with old Carltonians has been the best dose of confidence for our future I've had in the last 5 years. Someone that cares. Someone that wants to put their money where their mouth is. Someone that wants to bring Carltonians back to the club, to help the club and the kids.

His backing of Ratten may be spot on. I think he is. Ratten didn't like the direction Pagan's crash and bang, kick it long plan was going, and he may have been right. Whose to say that Ratten wouldn't be the right bloke to coach? Having Bradles, Diesel, Deano, Ratts, and a host of others come back to the club is only a good thing in my books.

I think that what is happening is not a disgrace. It's a call to all to make sure they do their best from now on, because there are alternatives at the door, and obviously brewing, and we haven't heard the last of it. Keep the bastards honest!!


Once one puts up their money, and our on field performance starts to improve, I expect there will be others to follow. It's far easier to attract $$$ when we're doing well, but thanks Browny for showing the money when the times are tough.

Ian Rice and Jack Elliot are gone. All those associated with those 2 ex presidents are always welcome back to Blue Skies. They are Carltonians.

Don't worry we're = we are, we will never return to the old ways, but we will be confident in what we can do on and off the field once again in the near future.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Has anyone heard whether a ticket is being formed and if so who is involved

Get over it, PAGAN is the coach!

This Club has been f..... for 6/7 years now and Im sick of hearing that its all Pagan's fault. He is now getting the list to look respestable and everyone can see improvement is on the cards. I'd love to see Ratten involved because I think he is a great coach in the making, but just getting all these ex-carlton players involved wont solve anything, its great that Brown is offering plenty of money and he was my favorite player but throwing money around, sacking this person, sacking that person just reminds me of John Elliot and we know thats who got us in this predictament in the first place. The damage he did was always going to set the club back 5 -10 years.
The board needs to have a good look at themselves and get their sh.. together and leave the coaching to the coaching panel, the players need to pull their heads in and start playing the bloody game properly, putting the hard yards in and stop blaming the scapegoat which is Pagan. Why cant Fisher spend 3 hours day learning to kick again, rather than find another reason to smash Pagan - for gods sake the blokes an adult, its not that hard to kick a footy properly, these blokes are professional footballers - take some responsibility for themselves.
This club is imploding because everyone is blaming evryone else and wanting to sack everyone in the true Carlton tradition, we need to mopve with the times, this bloke can coach - that is a fact and any player that has a problem with that should f... right off and play with some other mob or the VFL where 7 or 8 of the current list will end up anyway. You Pagan haters will owe this bloke a huge apology when he turns thsi club around.

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let's get thinking and acting like the POWERHOUSE that we were and will be again soon! I hope, I had enough of losing.

I agree with your views on this topic..

My views on DP have changed dramatically since the start of the season and a real shame he wasn't sacked in place of Mitchell or someone else..

I was rapt to see Brown was willing to put in 600k of his hard earnt to help get rid of Pagan.. Well, it seems Synners.. as much as the board appear amateurish, they had no choice but to retain Pagan as they were instructed to do so by the afl!..

And that sucks!.. The board were about to put their foot down and make a tough decision, only to have it overruled by the afl..

Replacing Pagan with Mitchell along with Brett Ratten, Craig Bradley etc.. as assistants would have been a breath of fresh air for our young guys and IMO could have had a positive influence like in 2004, when we happened to win 10 games with a bunch of battlers and rejects..

Good to see some old greats from the past wanting to instill change!.. We certaintly need it!

And yes, Jarusa.. Arrogance has been sorely missed during the last few years, and with a decent balance, i agree with Synbad... We need the ARROGANCE back!!

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

We certainly do!!

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

I think this article is fantastic. At last we have a Carlton person vocalising what a lot of us are feeling. We are dispirited, we haven't seen any team development in the years under Pagan and the flair has been beaten out of the playing group. We're not the bloody shin-boners. WE ARE CARLTON!!!

He is speaking about the club with passion and heart, unlike Pagan, Smorgon and Malouf. I truly hope that Fraser putting these thoughts out into the public arena will start the ball rolling. We should not allow the incompetence of the board to continue any longer.

And if he doesn't?

I was a big supporter of Pagan, defended him against the likes of Sydney Blue among others but it's nothing to be ashamed of to admit you're wrong.

We're arguably worse than we were last year and you think we're going to turn it around soon.

Won't happen unless he shows some confidence in the players. That's the problem. The players aren't showing anything because Denis thinks they won't. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Denis, if you think footy is played 90% above the shoulders, then why don't encourage them and tell them to run, play with attacking flair rather than giving them this discouraging bullsh*t that the players are sick of.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

It's happening - I've been saying this from very early in the year - BT leaked it on Triple M during the year, which I was disappointed about as it was very low key at the time.

I won't post names, as it's not appropriate, but there are influential Carlton people involved.

The recent debacle by current board has certainly not enhanced their chances of staying in office.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

Do we at least know when this will happen as i need some good news as my anti depressants are not working

I'd like to hope that this board and the coach will be over turned by the end of the season (before Grand Final or at least before the draft) but i'm also thinking.................................Will it be for the best?

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Thats what im worried about!.. And thats exactly the way we should be encouraged to play as a young developing team!...

The thing is Clem, we are NOT worse than what we were in 2005... We have improved as a team... But, at what rate!!?? How many times should we have to take losing by small margins and being fed the same things about 'being a young side'... etc..

I thought the WC game earlier in the year could have been a real learning experience and we could have taken a lot out of it.... What happened is we lost about the next 4 or 5 games that we had a real decent chance of winning!! The way we were losing, and with negative football, cut deep and thats what hurt...

I'll be spitting chips next year if Andrew Walker isnt given more free reign to play attacking, creative footy.. Show some confidence in the guys and i have no doubt there will be quite a few players that will improve and develop at a faster rate!...

We can't go through all this shit for nothing!! Denis Pagan has been at best dissappointing this year.... 2004, i'll say was a great year for Pagan and the players, but since then we have been in no mans land!!

How many times can you take the excuse that 'we cant finish off games'!! 'We'll take alot from this!' etc.... We'll take jack shit from it if we continue to make the same mistakes and not learn from them!!'

And Pagan should understand this... He has a big job ahead of him...

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

Thats what worries me too... As much as changes are desperately needed to eek out this mediocrity, how much chaos and mayhem as a footy club can we take!!??

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

franage wrote



I have never been a Pagan hater or basher. I haven't agreed with all his decisions on the field, but he has his reasons. He has a proven track record (but not at Carlton...yet).

Do I think he is the best person for the job? Not anymore! Well not as of today. But I do accept that he has the job! You know how it goes: what is is.

However, when I read stuff that the players are dispirited, over and over again, year after year, and then today BANG Browny comes out with it in public... well I smell a rat.

Sure Browny may be self serving in saying that, but he is passionate about reviving Carlton players from their 'souless and dispirited' state of mind. Well if that's the case, there must be some credence to his comments, and there is a need to fix it!!

Lets face it, Browny isn't a Collingwood man or from Mars either. He's in the know, and he obviously knows that all is not happy between the coach and some players...and he's backed it up with names (something rarely ever done, and not a good political move). I take my hat off for at least he has said what people need to know.

If Pagan can attract old Carltonians in Silvagni, Bradley, Ratten, Williams, Dean, etc to inspire the kids, help develop the kids, bring in fresh ideas, and bring back the heart and soul of Carlton, then he's the man.

The real issue here is that he can't, and I will back any coach that can; for the sake of my club. What a good story that will be when it happens. And that's not saying sack Pagan, it's merely accepting and welcoming the best option moving forward...and bringing back the inspiring 'masters' back home clearly pulls my heart strings.

Remember this, we have a very very young group of kids in the 18-23 age group. These kids on our list were 8-13 when Carlton won the flag in '95, and were in fact older than that whilst we were considered the powerhouse right up to 2000, and these kids do relate to the abovementioned names and would be inspired by their presence back at the club; I'm talking heart and mind stuff here. These kids remember what Carlton means: Powerhouse. No harm in hoping they come back I reckon.

In the meantime, it's set in stone: Pagan is the coach!

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

What do you mean "if Pagan can attract"?? It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$ for these guys, I'm sure anyone would welcome them coming down and helping out with skills and other things around the club if they liked on a non-monetary basis. But they all want "assistant" jobs, and Silvagni has demanded that he is allowed to be the senior coach in two years time?? This is a guy who has done a bit of part time coaching with the dogs and is demanding to be senior coach?? Good on the board for telling him where to go. If SOS can't even score himself an assistants gig at another club how the hell do you expect him to be a successful AFL coach?? Maybe SOS will have to go and coach a SANFL team for a while, would he shift out of Victoria or does he want everything delivered to him on a platter Tim Watson style?

How come the "Carlton" feeling was around in 2004 and after the wizard cup? Wouldn't have anything to do with winning games would it? What happens when these 'greats' come back to the club and results don't improve? We will hear the old "it takes time" and all the same crap we are hearing now.

Pagan should be recruiting the best assistants he can - and they are assistants from other clubs that have been in the system for a while who don't need to be taught everything - Cresswell, Bond, Royal etc who can bring their own ideas and tell us what other clubs are doing.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

CG, isn't it patently obvious that the last thing Pagan wants is assistant coaches with their own ideas?

Elshaugh was a waste of space - just Pagan's Mini-Me. Pagan was so wedded to him, he wanted him to be part of his contract.

Pagan, for better or worse, isn't hard-wired to accept differing opinions and methods. He's your classic old-school hard-taskmaster coach, and I really don't think guys like that cut it any more.

Anyway, it looks like we're stuck with him until we either get a new board, or the players hand him 4 100 point losses in the first eight weeks of season 2007.

My post isn't about Pagan and his methods, it's about the 'old Carlton gang'. None of them should be appointed as assistants and I'm pleased the board didn't cave in to their demands.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

One of those potenial assistants (Peter Dean) is percieved good enough by the Sydney Swans to be a candidate for a position on there team in 2007.