Fish is just an example they were all doing it
I played with the TC boys on the Saturday and they were making better choices and new to kick to the guy that was free . They are clearly told to kick it to the hot spot and bring the ball back into the middle

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

See, there has been several occasions this year when this kind of effort has been rewarded, I remember we looked like a super team against Melbourne and looked bloody good against Collingwood for 2 quarters and ditto to the Westcoast game.

I think it is more that they were physically and mentally drained and couldn't give a shit.

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

I have no doubt they're told to kick to the hot spot or bring the ball back into the middle, but not at the expense of ignoring a free man in the pocket. The one thing that is clear is your bias against Pagan. It's blinding you.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Ever heard of the concept of a poisoned chalice?

Completely hypothetical here:

Brad Fisher, having seen around 15 wins in his entire time at Carlton, knowing that he's not a super kick, sees Lappin charging into the pocket on his own.

Brad thinks "Wow, Lappo's on his own! I could even kick it to him. No wait a second, how can he be on his own? No one's ever on their own. Look there's Lance! On a lead! He's a good grab and clever with the footy, he's closer so I'll spear it to him and it shouldn't be cut off."

Am I as confident as you that my theory is correct? No.

Do I think you're right? No.

The easy chances have come our way so infrequently at Carlton in the last few years. You'd have to have an amazing level of resolve to have not been struck down by paranoia out on the field.

I bet if that was the case, most of the players wouldn't even want to recognise it.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I agree.

It all sounds a bit like St Kilda in 2001/02 where Thomas was appointed because he was mates with Buttress.

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There is no footy god

All of us can argue until we're blue in the face (not such a bad look if you're a Carlton supporter) about what Denis is or isn't responsible for regarding list management and development of players. Those who attend training regularly are obviously going to have a clearer idea of what the players are working on. That's of critical importance to the future of our list but it's not the primary reason to end his tenure as coach as far as I'm concerned.

I'm pleased with the development of a number of players and less so with others. Trying to pinpoint which good or bad bits Denis is responsible for and which bits he isn't is extremely difficult if not impossible.

I have little doubt that if we stick with Denis for the next two years we'll improve significantly with the addition of more good kids and the reduction of passengers on the list. Will it be Denis who's responsible for that progress or will it be a natural shift brought about by a slowly improving list? Who knows?

What concerns me most is what happens on game day. If Denis stays and we do improve either a lot or just marginally it won't change the way he coaches during a match.

Wayne Brittain lost me because it appeared he'd run out of ideas. Wallace and Eade were flooding all over the place and it gave me the shits. Brittain followed suit and he lost me with his lack of vision. I can accept the importance of players understanding how to flood and how to counter it and as a shock tactic it's very useful. The problem is that a shock tactic is only a shock if you use it sparingly.

Denis doesn't appear to have adapted to the changes in the game of the last five years. Hardly a game goes by where the flood isn't used for at least a quarter or two. In the four years Denis has been at the helm I haven't seen one new technique on game day. The only tactics he's used have been ones he's been using throughout his coaching career and a couple (such as flooding) that are basic at best and not of his own creation.

I want a coach who can think beyond the established systems.

I want a coach who can adapt to changing circumstances.

I want a coach who can put structures in place that make his players want to die for him when they go out onto the ground. I want them to be so convinced of his genius that they will follow orders without thinking.

If Denis stays on for the next two years and things improve regardless of his input due to a better list and the natural development of players we may be stuck with a coach who doesn't have the adaptability and creative flair to take them further.

I've generally backed Denis over his first three years because I believed (and still do) that he didn't have much to work with and he was inheriting a poisoned culture that needed a complete cleanout. The cleanout's far enough progressed by now for that to all be left behind. It's time for him to be judged on what he's doing right now and from where I'm sitting it's not up to standard.

Unfortunately due to the financial position of the club I can't see them doing anything other than appointing Mitchell if they do take the plunge. Mitchell may be fantastic but I'd prefer to see him get the job by winning it over a group of highly competent applicants rather than by default. Due to those financial constraints I'll understand if we go down that road. If we do then I'll expect Mitchell to revolutionise the club within a couple of years. If he can do that he stays. If he can't we have a proper appointment process for a new coach at the end of 2008.

For now I'm yet to be 100% convinced that Mitchell's the right appointment (and I'll be filthy if they bring in a conga line of old navy blue suckholes as assistants rather than getting the best available) but he'll have to do.

Time to go Denis.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Right on the money as usual GWS.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Nice post GWS

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

This is a dumb move if ever I heard one, we should stick with Pagan. Smorgan is in trouble and he is going to put together some shitty line up like Mitchell, SOS, Ratten, Dean to appease the members - Pathetic. This is the kind of thing you would do in the 1970's.

Given how pathetic our list is we had to go for the priority pick. You can't engineer a five point loss every game. Finishing with seven wins would have been a disaster and despite the sheep bleating that winning 6 games would lead to a premiership faster, it wouldn't.

If we are gunna replace him why wouldn't you appoint the best possible person - McKenna, Longmuir, Royal whoever and then allow them to appoint their own assistants?

If Mitchell is so damn good why not let him take over a team in the VFL with an average playing list rather than a star studded one and see how he goes? I'm pretty sure he won't get them to finish 17-1.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

Back to back spoons says it all.

We've gone nowhere.

Unacceptable.

Time for change.

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"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost

CG you do realise at some time in the future we are at some stage going to win 6-7 meaningless games - If you think we are going from spooners to finals in one hit youre dreaming son

I knew there was a reason I didn't believe in God.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

same here Syd Blue, someone around here looks at what the majority think and then posts the opposite - why? Dunno

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

The @#$%&! problem is that we should have Picks 1 & 3 THIS YEAR not picks 1, 17 & 18.

Then we would be getting somewhere sooner.

Gibbs and Gumbleton or Gibbs and Hansen.


We have been right royally reamed by the AFL again in a penalty almost as bad as Black Friday 2002 and our namby pamby board have done @#$%&! all about it - happy to accept the 30 pieces of silver from the AFL in return for us shutting up about the changes to the Priority Pick rules which are meant to assist clubs with shit lists and as far as I am concerned there aint not club with a shitter list than us.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

You're a Pagan then?

Did you have a nice Father's day?

From the man who brought it to us first

Now, who are we taking at No. 1 again, EB????

A couple of problems here.

1) If we're going to get a new coach, then we really need to apply a thorough process and get someone to bring new life and ideas into the club. If Barry Mitchell is a good enough candidate he should go into this job interview process and come out on top if he's any good.

2) Those who want Pagan to stay need to watch yesterday's game again. It was no different to when we lost to the Swans in round 1 2003 at Telstra Stadium. Same bomb to CHF, bomb to a contest, no leading, NO ONE making space. We haven't moved forward in 4 seasons. Same tactics, same ineffectual bullcrap.

Something has to give, it's not just the cattle, we've turned over a heap of cattle over the last 4 years.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

I'm more than happy to win 6 or 7 games when we have an adequate talent base that is able to deliver a premiership. If we had won 7 games last year we wouldn't have Murphy, forget about me dreaming, I think you are permanently stuck in dreamland.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

That's what worries me, GWS.

Small price to pay if Den den goes, though

If you are just comparing on a game by game basis why don't you compare our result against west coast in 2003 to in 2006.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

And when do we meet this magical talent base is it next year the year after that hell we have been hanging around the bottom for a while now collecting draft picks . I was just wondering how many more picks we need to satisfy you oh Holy one

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws