I believe Pagan deserves 1 more year, put it simply to him that if we don't finish 14th or higher then he's gone ... anyone in his shoes would have gone through the same thing, I don't believe its a coaching issue, but we have to improve for next year.

My issue with the Brown deal is the choice of assistants. I am not sure of the coaching credentials of Diesel, Ratten, Bradley, complemented by Sticks and Gleeson in charge of the football dept. The set up stinks of the dark days from the Elliot era.

We fought very hard to break up the boys club, and although times are desperate lets us not take our eyes of the big picture. Another year of Pagan may well be the lesser of the two evils if the choice of assistants is non negotiable component of the deal.

Absolute schmozzle. The reveiw committee should have presented the various option and recommendations available to the club and a decision one way or the other should have been made. Now the club looks to be indecivise and divivided......................... which we probably are.

Great.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

I haven't read the whole thread....what's "the Brown deal"?

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

I'd rather take the dark old days of success and premierships over the last few years.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Be carefull what you ask for it might come true

The fact that the sheep are bleating so hard for Pagan to be sacked just confirms for me more than ever its a bad idea.

Pagan will be sacked coz the board are desperate and insecure and need to be seen as doing something.

and Hawthorn appointed Clarkeson because they thought Wallace and Eade would come knocking their door down, they didn't. Clarkeson also got the go ahead to trade any player he wanted for draft picks - our board wouldn't allow that because they are desperate for wins to save their own arses.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

The days when we appointed a Barassi or Parkin to turn this club around and not a Jesaulenko.

Cronies and I'm glad the board didn't cave into Brown's demands just for the sake of change. I just hope the delay in making a decision is because we're trying to find a more qualified coach in the next week.

A better move than have a coaching panel which is just a re-union of the 1995 season and made up of Carlton people.

Brown has no right to dictate who is coach and his support should be unconditional.

Sounds like Fraser is trying to fix the mess that the club has become since your boy has been in charge.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I posted this almost 3 weeks ago. I dare say they have now 'privately interviewed' the other candidates (McKenna/Pyke/Longmire/Harvey etc).........all of whom are involved with teams playing finals. Could this be the 'real reason' for the one week delay???

I am all for the old Carlton crew to come back and return this club back to where it used to be.

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Confucius say "Virginity like bubble, one prick all gone"

Brown is not dictating anything - he has apparently made an offer that solves a problem for the Club. If he is coming up with the funds to do so he is fully entitled to put conditions on it (Recall the thread about what conditions Pratt may be able to put on any funds he so provided). Think of it the other way - if you were putting big funds in wouldn't you only do it if changes were made that you agreed with?

The Club can agree or otherwise - its up to the Directors.

If the Brown story is true, then good on him for at least caring and putting his dough on the table. If its not then so be it.

Fremantle will at least make the second week of the finals so if we're waiting for the new coach's team to be out of the finals it would be at least a 2 week delay.

Guy McKenna anyone?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Someone posted last night that Fraser Brown was willing to pay out the rest of Pagan's contract...

Lucky there is even a Fraser Brown willing to help, conditional or not. 1.2m "profit" is a lot of memberships and a lot of say in where his money goes. Why can't Ratts Braddles and Diesel assist? sound as good as Trout, Libba, Daniher and Dempsey.
I want to see the Brown Dog jump out of his earth mover run behind Pagan in the corridor at PP and tackle him to the ground and Sticks and Bear, yell BAAALLLL LLLL. and Smorgo bend forward and raise the arms.

In a large brown paper bag

Brown is the only one who refused to squeal when the club was being done for salary cap breaches and now he's willing to stump up the cash to pay out Pagan. IMO he's well within his rights to offer the money conditionally.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

It'll be less than half that amount.

Whether we sack Pagan or not we'll pay him the same amount (although hopefully less if an arrangement can be agreed upon).

The amount needed is what it costs to pay Mitchell/another coach.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

I'd give up GWS, that has been mentioned at least 4 or 5 times in the thread, very few seem to understand it.

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Agree with the points you have made on this issue. For me, the above is the main problem ... that the Board leak things to the press in half baked fashion, before decisions have actually been made and confmed, then come across as nervous nellies in the face of totally predictable public reaction.

Surely even blind deaf and dumb Freddy would not need to think very hard to realise that he should expect exactly this reaction in the media, and from supporters?

I am not at all surprised that the majority of supporters ruinging the Club would be saying keep Pagan. As has been pointed out, the majority of supporters don't discuss all the issues related to training, match day tactics etc as they are on here.

In my opinion, Pagan needs to go, and that is more paramount than getting the "optimum" replacement, given that selection of an optimum replacement is likely to be highly subjective in any case. We have seen that Mitchell does have imagination and can develop young players, and communicate with them ... all of which, in my opinion, are major issues with Pagan's approach, and needing urgent redress.

Also, as someone else stated, the main issue with the payout would be that the $1.2M is most likely required up front rather than over the next 2 years (hence the Club needs cash up front, which we know they don't have), as well as some extra money required for any new football department coaches.

I understand he's clearing all our debt, right?

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides