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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:39 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28227
Sin City wrote:
I'm not completely up with contract situations but if I was doing it this week

Delist: Dick, Foster, Gallucci, Gorringe, Gowers, Smith, Tutt, Whiley, Wood.
Retire: Walker, Jamison
One more year: White, Buckley, DVR, Armfield
Some of the guys in line to be delisted such as Tutt do deserve a chance to show something under Bolton, others like Smith and Foster may turn things around in the second half of the year.
Elevate: Byrne, possibly Sheahan.

Six senior list spots, four rookie spots available.

Trade possibilities: Everitt, Graham although I'd like to keep both.

Need to target quality mids either by drafting or trading or first round pick.


I'd like to see Gowers Smith Foster DVR given games at senior level otherwise it's uneducated list management.
We've got time to assess them properly.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:40 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Location: St Helens
Gallucci may keep his spot if we draft Jordan this year, otherwise he'll be lucky.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:40 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Posts: 3073
A bit worried about Everitt. When the going gets tough he seems to go missing ... and even when he does fire ... he tends to go missing for large amounts of game time.

I reckon he has till end of year to prove that he can be a 4 quarter player.

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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:06 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9793
Location: Australia
The Normal One wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


So Triggs was lying?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-makes-it-official-significant-rebuild-required-says-steven-trigg-20150416-1mm5yt.html

A rebuild is a rebuild until it doesn't work, and then we decide we will start a new rebuild to fix the old rebuild (in this case 12 months after the previous rebuild!), been hearing the same old tired line for 16 years.

Maybe Bolts and SOS will get us to finals in 3-4 years, but what happens when if we get stuck mid-table like we did with Ratten? Do we rebuild again?

I honestly believe it will take a board clean-out to take us the final step to premiership contention regardless of how many list rebuilds we undertake and messiah coaches we hire.


Rebuild started last year, reset started this year.


Excellent news, so what comes next year? Reboot?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:33 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 934
sinbagger wrote:
sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


So Triggs was lying?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-makes-it-official-significant-rebuild-required-says-steven-trigg-20150416-1mm5yt.html

A rebuild is a rebuild until it doesn't work, and then we decide we will start a new rebuild to fix the old rebuild (in this case 12 months after the previous rebuild!), been hearing the same old tired line for 16 years.

Maybe Bolts and SOS will get us to finals in 3-4 years, but what happens when if we get stuck mid-table like we did with Ratten? Do we rebuild again?

I honestly believe it will take a board clean-out to take us the final step to premiership contention regardless of how many list rebuilds we undertake and messiah coaches we hire.


So we sack the board, then what. Your mythical unicorn board will do what? A new coach? A new recruitment mangaer? A new ceo? You talk about messiahs, arent you being a wee bit hypocritical ? Isnt your suggestion of a brand new board tantamount to the same thing, that you accuse the board of?
What is it about bolton that you are unsatisfied with as you definitely imply this?


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:34 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
sinbagger wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


So Triggs was lying?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-makes-it-official-significant-rebuild-required-says-steven-trigg-20150416-1mm5yt.html

A rebuild is a rebuild until it doesn't work, and then we decide we will start a new rebuild to fix the old rebuild (in this case 12 months after the previous rebuild!), been hearing the same old tired line for 16 years.

Maybe Bolts and SOS will get us to finals in 3-4 years, but what happens when if we get stuck mid-table like we did with Ratten? Do we rebuild again?

I honestly believe it will take a board clean-out to take us the final step to premiership contention regardless of how many list rebuilds we undertake and messiah coaches we hire.


Rebuild started last year, reset started this year.


Excellent news, so what comes next year? Reboot?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


A premiership


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:41 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9793
Location: Australia
padre wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


So Triggs was lying?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-makes-it-official-significant-rebuild-required-says-steven-trigg-20150416-1mm5yt.html

A rebuild is a rebuild until it doesn't work, and then we decide we will start a new rebuild to fix the old rebuild (in this case 12 months after the previous rebuild!), been hearing the same old tired line for 16 years.

Maybe Bolts and SOS will get us to finals in 3-4 years, but what happens when if we get stuck mid-table like we did with Ratten? Do we rebuild again?

I honestly believe it will take a board clean-out to take us the final step to premiership contention regardless of how many list rebuilds we undertake and messiah coaches we hire.


So we sack the board, then what. Your mythical unicorn board will do what? A new coach? A new recruitment mangaer? A new ceo? You talk about messiahs, arent you being a wee bit hypocritical ? Isnt your suggestion of a brand new board tantamount to the same thing, that you accuse the board of?
What is it about bolton that you are unsatisfied with as you definitely imply this?


Not at all hypocritical, what I am saying is that changing a few pieces won't be fully effective, what we need is a good list manager AND a good coach AND a good recruiting manager AND an effective board, etc.

SOS and Bolton will only take us so far in isolation. We need the whole club working effectively to challenge for number 17.

Why should the board be exempt from accountability and change?


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 6450
They're not exempt, vote them out or find the unicorn ticket that people talk about but have no bloody idea of who it is

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
padre wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


So Triggs was lying?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-makes-it-official-significant-rebuild-required-says-steven-trigg-20150416-1mm5yt.html

A rebuild is a rebuild until it doesn't work, and then we decide we will start a new rebuild to fix the old rebuild (in this case 12 months after the previous rebuild!), been hearing the same old tired line for 16 years.

Maybe Bolts and SOS will get us to finals in 3-4 years, but what happens when if we get stuck mid-table like we did with Ratten? Do we rebuild again?

I honestly believe it will take a board clean-out to take us the final step to premiership contention regardless of how many list rebuilds we undertake and messiah coaches we hire.


So we sack the board, then what. Your mythical unicorn board will do what? A new coach? A new recruitment mangaer? A new ceo? You talk about messiahs, arent you being a wee bit hypocritical ? Isnt your suggestion of a brand new board tantamount to the same thing, that you accuse the board of?
What is it about bolton that you are unsatisfied with as you definitely imply this?


The board that seems to be ok with the club not having a recruitment manager during the re-build, re-boot, re-whatever...


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:19 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Sin City wrote:
Gallucci may keep his spot if we draft Jordan this year, otherwise he'll be lucky.

I thought Jordan and Andrew weren't related?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Sin City wrote:
Gallucci may keep his spot if we draft Jordan this year, otherwise he'll be lucky.

I thought Jordan and Andrew weren't related?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:26 am
Posts: 14729
Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
Bloody answer Sin!

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Essendon* cheated, simple as that


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:39 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:05 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: St Helens
emtwenty wrote:
Sin City wrote:
Gallucci may keep his spot if we draft Jordan this year, otherwise he'll be lucky.

I thought Jordan and Andrew weren't related?

I have only read it on the forums so you could well be right.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Sin City wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Sin City wrote:
Gallucci may keep his spot if we draft Jordan this year, otherwise he'll be lucky.

I thought Jordan and Andrew weren't related?

I have only read it on the forums so you could well be right.


I could easily be wrong too :lol:


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:16 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9793
Location: Australia
teagueyubeauty wrote:
They're not exempt, vote them out or find the unicorn ticket that people talk about but have no bloody idea of who it is


Any bunch of people off the street could done as well as our board over the last 14 years, no need for unicorns.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:39 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 6450
Put your hand up then

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:33 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9793
Location: Australia
Are you even reading what I type beyond what your bias allows you to see?

I would class myself in "bunch of people off the street who would do as well as the current board".

We need a better mix of board members than that. Give them a fixed timeframe such as 3 years and if they don't show improvement then rebuild the board. Just like we do the playing list, the coach, the list manager, etc.

When I asked why are they exempt from judgment and change you said they are not. Well unless you view the last 14 years as successful then you must agree that they need to change.


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:38 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9793
Location: Australia
Maybe a new board would be worse (it's possible, just look at the drug cheats), but more likely they will be better.

Regardless, claiming that the board should stay because there's no-one better "i.e. Unicorn Board" is a pretty poor argument against change.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:57 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 2521
sinbagger wrote:
Are you even reading what I type beyond what your bias allows you to see?

I would class myself in "bunch of people off the street who would do as well as the current board".

We need a better mix of board members than that. Give them a fixed timeframe such as 3 years and if they don't show improvement then rebuild the board. Just like we do the playing list, the coach, the list manager, etc.

When I asked why are they exempt from judgment and change you said they are not. Well unless you view the last 14 years as successful then you must agree that they need to change.


Not 1 board member has been there for 14 years. 14 years ego takes us back to the Elliott era.

Your post implies that our board has remained unchanged for over a decade. It hasn't. Fried and Gleeson have been there 10 years, Clarke 9, LoGuidice 6, Pratt 5, Mathieson 3.5, Sayers 2.5, Jenkins 6 months. It's clearly not the same board it was 14 years ago. It has fairly regularly changed and new members have been added to offer fresh perspectives and new skills. Tarring them all with the same 'no success under their reign' brush is unfair.
I'm happy for the board to gradually phase out the long term members and bring in some new ones as needed, but the whole 'sack the board, replace it with a new one' rhetoric doesn't fly with me.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28227
cecil89 wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Are you even reading what I type beyond what your bias allows you to see?

I would class myself in "bunch of people off the street who would do as well as the current board".

We need a better mix of board members than that. Give them a fixed timeframe such as 3 years and if they don't show improvement then rebuild the board. Just like we do the playing list, the coach, the list manager, etc.

When I asked why are they exempt from judgment and change you said they are not. Well unless you view the last 14 years as successful then you must agree that they need to change.


Not 1 board member has been there for 14 years. 14 years ego takes us back to the Elliott era.

Your post implies that our board has remained unchanged for over a decade. It hasn't. Fried and Gleeson have been there 10 years, Clarke 9, LoGuidice 6, Pratt 5, Mathieson 3.5, Sayers 2.5, Jenkins 6 months. It's clearly not the same board it was 14 years ago. It has fairly regularly changed and new members have been added to offer fresh perspectives and new skills. Tarring them all with the same 'no success under their reign' brush is unfair.
I'm happy for the board to gradually phase out the long term members and bring in some new ones as needed, but the whole 'sack the board, replace it with a new one' rhetoric doesn't fly with me.

Given the horrendous decisions, only Sayers and Jenkins deserve a chance.

As stated many times, it's a closed shop with invites only, which is never a good thing for a democratic structure.


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