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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:34 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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ryan2000 wrote:
billc3 wrote:
ryan2000 wrote:
Would love to pick up Caleb Marchbank from the GWS.......... but we'd have to give up something big you'd reckon.

But he's a rebounding defender who could well be a handy replacement for Simmo when he retires.

Docherty not good enough?...Byrne also? Simmo will be hard to replace, but we're on our way . Hawks strategy was to pick players tgat fitted how the team would play...we'll do the same....AT LAST.



Never said Docherty wasn't good enough. In fact, he's probably my choice for B&F as it stands right now.

Sorry ryan, I was asking 'not good enough to replace Simmo'.... Anyway..

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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:12 am 
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Bob Chitty
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McStay would be a great addition. I think he is going to be quality.
I feel like I heard he had signed for 3 years last year though.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 6:22 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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As last night demonstrated, we are about 6 - 8 players short in competing against the top teams

The football world got overly excited about where we are at, hopefully the club hasn't

Although a very good start to our rebuild, effort and intensity will only get you so far

Need a major injection of skill into this list

Our ball use is poor and needs to improve significantly


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:10 am 
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Craig Bradley
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57 weeks to go.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:45 am 
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John Nicholls
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WOW wrote:
As last night demonstrated, we are about 6 - 8 players short in competing against the top teams

The football world got overly excited about where we are at, hopefully the club hasn't

Although a very good start to our rebuild, effort and intensity will only get you so far

Need a major injection of skill into this list

Our ball use is poor and needs to improve significantly


Good post. Bolta was very clear earlier this week stating that there is a long way to go. He knows exactly what we have. I am also sure he knows exactly what we need.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 10:53 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Harry, JG-M and Jaksch are so important to this rebuild. Hopefully they can build some minutes in the 2nd half of the year injury free and launch into a full preseason.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:19 am 
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Bruce Doull
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toddkurnski wrote:
jimmae wrote:
I'm not talking about divesting from the first round

Who is? Outside of one player who has played 6 games, is there another tall on the list who isn't untried, constantly injured, inconsistent or too old.

We already have the dogs 3rd round pick, you could trade out another player for a similar pick. I still think it's still very difficult to get talls at those picks.

Between 30-60 nothing in 2003 (Zac Dawson?), 2004, 2005, 2008, 2010 (Tom Lynch and Darling the only two talls in our 'talls draft' that succeeded, boy did we pick the wrong year), 2011, 2012. After that probably too early to tell.
2006 Draft
29 Eric MacKenzie West Coast Eagles
32 Kurt Tippett Adelaide Crows
Close to what you are saying but still second round selections
71 Justin Westhoff Port Adelaide

2007 Draft
37 Scott Thompson Kangaroos
54 Cale Hooker Essendon**

2009
38 Sam Reid Sydney Swans

Strike rate in that zone for talls is pretty low over that decade. That was just a quick scan so maybe there are more...

Who says we're picking talls? Take a look at our list: we need maybe two tall defenders and a tall forward to develop right now, at most, and we've got 20 talls on the list chasing up to 8 or 9 spots in the team.

We need mids, and there's going to be plenty of them right through the draft. Go read all the phantom drafts and profiles and find out how many talls are in the mix for the top 30. If there's value, we'll take it, but we're not after talls and it's a shit draft for it, at least at the top end (which usually means no good key forwards/elite defenders).

What's more, that kind of analysis that you've done keeps falling over at the moment because of how rapidly talent ID has been evolving over the last few years. Stick to a 5-year window right now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Foster JG-M Gowers all big raps from JF this week.
Very positive sounds.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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moshe25 wrote:
scottopee wrote:
We had the 3rd oldest average age side in the AFL for round 8. At the end of the year we need to get younger with drafted talent not more recycled players. The 25-30yr old state league battlers need to be moved on including unfortunately Jamo who looks like he's done.
White, Jamo, Armfield, Wood, Tutt, Whiley, Foster, and Dick to be moved on. Reprieve for Jones (contracted!) Rowe (1 more year) Smith and Rainbow need to show something in the seniors by next year even add Boekhorst to that list.

And surely you jest about Armfield... :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


He's 30 next year and averages 13 disposals and 1.8 tackles a game with 1 goal to his name this year and will not get better! Not skilful enough to play in the backline and doesn't kick goals in the forward line. Great clubman and role model but time to move on.

We aren't going anywhere with Armfield in the side after this year :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:41 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Armfield will probably find himself in the same situation as he faced last off-season. Could be offered a 1 year contract if we have list space, could just as easily be squeezed out after our trading and to allow us the number of draft picks we want.
He'll probably still be in or around the best 22, but at some point he'll be let go and we'll have to find someone else to play his role.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:28 am 
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John James
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I think this will be Armfield's last year IMO. I'm a fan and admire his G+D and pace but in reality he doesn't offer enough to have another year or 2 on the list

I was happy to have him stay this year after the large scale changes to the list but we should use his spot on the list for a new recruit at years end


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:03 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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WOW wrote:
Although a very good start to our rebuild, effort and intensity will only get you so far


I thought our rebuild started at the beginning of last season and we are almost half way though now. Isn't that what Trigg told us?


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:15 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 6450
Includes 2 more draft and trading periods...that's only to be an ultra competitive unit to make the 8.

It will take longer to be really challenging for a flag and will need mor to go right than wrong.

My fear is that people will think we'll be in premiership conversations post the 66 game rebuild, if people think that they're deluded

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 11:31 am 
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Rod Ashman
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The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:01 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9793
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sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


So Triggs was lying?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-makes-it-official-significant-rebuild-required-says-steven-trigg-20150416-1mm5yt.html

A rebuild is a rebuild until it doesn't work, and then we decide we will start a new rebuild to fix the old rebuild (in this case 12 months after the previous rebuild!), been hearing the same old tired line for 16 years.

Maybe Bolts and SOS will get us to finals in 3-4 years, but what happens when if we get stuck mid-table like we did with Ratten? Do we rebuild again?

I honestly believe it will take a board clean-out to take us the final step to premiership contention regardless of how many list rebuilds we undertake and messiah coaches we hire.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.

SOS was in the building 8 months before Bolton, and was engineering some of these trades before this time last year.

I reckon we've got at most 50 games more before we start asking why we're not finals bound, but so far we seem to be on-schedule.

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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:27 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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sinbagger wrote:
sstormin123 wrote:
The rebuild started this year. Only when bolts and sos took over.

The list management wasn't the best before then.


So Triggs was lying?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-makes-it-official-significant-rebuild-required-says-steven-trigg-20150416-1mm5yt.html

A rebuild is a rebuild until it doesn't work, and then we decide we will start a new rebuild to fix the old rebuild (in this case 12 months after the previous rebuild!), been hearing the same old tired line for 16 years.

Maybe Bolts and SOS will get us to finals in 3-4 years, but what happens when if we get stuck mid-table like we did with Ratten? Do we rebuild again?

I honestly believe it will take a board clean-out to take us the final step to premiership contention regardless of how many list rebuilds we undertake and messiah coaches we hire.


Rebuild started last year, reset started this year.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:18 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I'm not completely up with contract situations but if I was doing it this week

Delist: Dick, Foster, Gallucci, Gorringe, Gowers, Smith, Tutt, Whiley, Wood.
Retire: Walker, Jamison
One more year: White, Buckley, DVR, Armfield
Some of the guys in line to be delisted such as Tutt do deserve a chance to show something under Bolton, others like Smith and Foster may turn things around in the second half of the year.
Elevate: Byrne, possibly Sheahan.

Six senior list spots, four rookie spots available.

Trade possibilities: Everitt, Graham although I'd like to keep both.

Need to target quality mids either by drafting or trading or first round pick.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:07 pm
Posts: 240
Galluci has not had a go as yet so if option for a year we should

trades liam, everitt, white smith but not to much value in that lot

dont disagree with any of the other points


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:39 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14986
Sin City wrote:
I'm not completely up with contract situations but if I was doing it this week

Delist: Dick, Foster, Gallucci, Gorringe, Gowers, Smith, Tutt, Whiley, Wood.
Retire: Walker, Jamison
One more year: White, Buckley, DVR, Armfield
Some of the guys in line to be delisted such as Tutt do deserve a chance to show something under Bolton, others like Smith and Foster may turn things around in the second half of the year.
Elevate: Byrne, possibly Sheahan.

Six senior list spots, four rookie spots available.

Trade possibilities: Everitt, Graham although I'd like to keep both.

Need to target quality mids either by drafting or trading or first round pick.

Agree with most of those changes, although I would be surprised if Armfield gets another year.
Walker is contracted for next year as is Jamo so both would have to agree to it, although rumours suggest Jamo is going to retire.
I hope we keep Graham, need some midfield depth .
So far there have been no re-signings of players coming out of contract this year which is a bit unusual.
We have to have some sort of stability of the list so the massive turnovers of the last 2 years probably wont happen again.
Interesting times ahead.


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