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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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What was the point of the club saying he'd taken a pay cut if he hadnt really

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Essendon* cheated, simple as that


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Megaman wrote:
What was the point of the club saying he'd taken a pay cut if he hadnt really


Find me evidence that the club said it. The papers may have said it. Don't think the club did.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2013-0 ... n-for-2014


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Blue Vain wrote:
bluepill wrote:
what do you guys think west coast will give us for bootsma .. do you think we'll ask for a plater or draft pick



Why exactly are we shopping Bootsma around? He's had 2 years in the system and he has shown enough to persist with.
Unless we get a great offer, I'm unsure of why we're looking to offload him. :?


I agree. The only explanation I can see is to put a rocket under him and get him back with good skins folds this pre-season


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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m.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-01/carlton-eyes-thomas-after-judds-pay-cut

The CEO is quoted as saying he took "a really really substantial paycut"

Even if the club hadnt said it - what is the point? Why would journos push the story?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Murph also said it on the footy show the week Judd resigned that he had taken a big pay cut.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Rod McGregor

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Megaman wrote:
m.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-01/carlton-eyes-thomas-after-judds-pay-cut

The CEO is quoted as saying he took "a really really substantial paycut"

Even if the club hadnt said it - what is the point? Why would journos push the story?


And if I can add to your questions, where's the evidence to the contrary?

If there's no explicit evidence that he's our best paid player, what's the basis of your inference that he is?
We all know some of the people running club wouldn't look out of place in the Cirque du Soleil, but even the 15 year old girls publicly drooling over pictures on the Carlton facebook page know Judd's not our best player anymore. Surely they didn't offer him anything other than a "really, really substantial pay cut".


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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it all depends on your perception of big i guess

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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After a 6 year contract and the Visy link, it should have been time for the club to play hardball. Push to free up salary cap and give Judd the hope that we would aggressively build the list through the free agency and trade period (for the hope of a pre-retirement premiership push).

Very disappointed if we didn't do this.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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aerodyte wrote:
Megaman wrote:
m.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-01/carlton-eyes-thomas-after-judds-pay-cut

The CEO is quoted as saying he took "a really really substantial paycut"

Even if the club hadnt said it - what is the point? Why would journos push the story?


And if I can add to your questions, where's the evidence to the contrary?

If there's no explicit evidence that he's our best paid player, what's the basis of your inference that he is?
We all know some of the people running club wouldn't look out of place in the Cirque du Soleil, but even the 15 year old girls publicly drooling over pictures on the Carlton facebook page know Judd's not our best player anymore. Surely they didn't offer him anything other than a "really, really substantial pay cut".

this is a very complex situation. you're saying he is not.but with Eddie leaving and two players in the vets plus hammer leaving we can afford Daisy .with Judd taking that massive paycut and all.
where has the money all gone?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:59 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Synbad wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
choo wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Now did you also question me when I said a month ago we don't have as much money in the salary cap as people think?


No I questioned you when you made up carp about Goodes an hour ago.


Don't question the great one!!!

:grin:

Different worlds

This guy doesn't understand salary cap list management productivity.

Just hard for me to fathom stupidity.

I'm arrogant that way but stupidity is hard to stomach

In getting hammered about Judd?

I don't suck up the salary cap
Someone is

Not me

I don't make our list average
Not me
One guy gets a million the other 40 odd have to share seven
But that guy has to perform in sorry

Production is all in interested in
Any review would begin the players list with questioning judd


If we substitute the name Judd for Koutoufides this post is almost exactly the same as Synbads posts 8-9 years back...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Megaman wrote:
m.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-01/carlton-eyes-thomas-after-judds-pay-cut

The CEO is quoted as saying he took "a really really substantial paycut"

Even if the club hadnt said it - what is the point? Why would journos push the story?


Easter bunny stuff.

you're now confident enough to bring up swanns prudent salary cap prowess.and his dreamtime stories.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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sinbagger wrote:
Synbad wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
choo wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Now did you also question me when I said a month ago we don't have as much money in the salary cap as people think?


No I questioned you when you made up carp about Goodes an hour ago.


Don't question the great one!!!

:grin:

Different worlds

This guy doesn't understand salary cap list management productivity.

Just hard for me to fathom stupidity.

I'm arrogant that way but stupidity is hard to stomach

In getting hammered about Judd?

I don't suck up the salary cap
Someone is

Not me

I don't make our list average
Not me
One guy gets a million the other 40 odd have to share seven
But that guy has to perform in sorry

Production is all in interested in
Any review would begin the players list with questioning judd


If we substitute the name Judd for Koutoufides this post is almost exactly the same as Synbads posts 8-9 years back...

means two things.
I do not care about names only performance and value and the club is in the same cycle.
didn't work then if I'm not mistaken.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Megaman wrote:
What was the point of the club saying he'd taken a pay cut if he hadnt really

lost Eddie and hammer and gained Daisy with the warchest if course.

is excellent ya?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:52 pm
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Synbad wrote:
aerodyte wrote:
Megaman wrote:
m.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-01/carlton-eyes-thomas-after-judds-pay-cut

The CEO is quoted as saying he took "a really really substantial paycut"

Even if the club hadnt said it - what is the point? Why would journos push the story?


And if I can add to your questions, where's the evidence to the contrary?

If there's no explicit evidence that he's our best paid player, what's the basis of your inference that he is?
We all know some of the people running club wouldn't look out of place in the Cirque du Soleil, but even the 15 year old girls publicly drooling over pictures on the Carlton facebook page know Judd's not our best player anymore. Surely they didn't offer him anything other than a "really, really substantial pay cut".

this is a very complex situation. you're saying he is not.but with Eddie leaving and two players in the vets plus hammer leaving we can afford Daisy .with Judd taking that massive paycut and all.
where has the money all gone?


Completely agree it's a complex situation. Obviously no one is privy to the actual payments, so anything put forward is speculation. But I could make a few educated guesses.

Firstly, trade period has 9 days left to run, so it's not absolutely clear that we're not holding space to lure someone before then. We're not broadcasting our intentions to do so, no doubt. But clubs have to hold their cards close to their chest. The remaining free agents are pretty pox, so silence on that front is acceptable (and probably desirable). There aren't too many un-contracted players floating around either. The denied link to Heath Shaw was put down to us neither wanting nor needing him, but I don't think anyone thought it incredible that we could fit him under the cap. And as for contracted players, rival clubs have to play ball and that's bloody hard to orchestrate.

Secondly, there could potentially be a more long term focus (wishful thinking perhaps). Could they be front-loading a few contracts to free up some cash in preparation for next years free agency period, which looks decidedly more tasty? (Can they even do that mid-contract? Maybe they can't, but it's not that implausible). Could the front loading have been planned for this year when the contracts were originally put together (now I'm really in fairy land)? There are also a handful of very pricey players who will need to be re-signed next season. We'd look quite the fools if we landed another big fish, only to have Murphy, Walker, Gibbs, Warnock or Hendo get squeezed out.

Thirdly, and most likely, every other player on the list is being paid overs.

Now the question for all of you playing along at home is which is more likely, we have no room to move in the cap because:
1) Some combination of the reasons above
2) Chris Judd was re-signed earlier this year as the most expensive player at our club, and one of the most expensive players in the league, despite blind Freddy being able to see his best footy is well behind him, and despite the club saying he'd taken "a really, really substantial pay cut"

I'm all for calling the clubs list management woeful. But I don't think Chris Judd is the heart of the mistake/s. Respectfully, I think it might be you who isn't appreciating the complexity of the situation.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:26 am 
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Bruce Doull
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lotsof theories there
but im wrong even if most of yours sound ludicrous.


when theclub talks about judds sacrifices you can bet he had to take a third party haircut.you see tfaht is a reduction

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:29 am 
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Bruce Doull
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judd waite

gibbs

carrots murph

theres the top end of the cap

top 2 are a waste - gibbs is close to our best player

carrots is a waste

murph is borderline

add thomas

and .......................

we are left with where we are

scrambling for ideas

trying to offload failed draft picks

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:34 am 
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Bruce Doull
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signed watson and rowe tuohy and curnow
heaps of money

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:38 am 
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Bruce Doull
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i wish to add..... we dont have alot of a graders...extra three hundred ir so in salary cap.judd took a massive paycut.
waite n simmo vets
-hammer gone..signed up so cant go to gws and we get a priority pick.


so where is the cash ?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:44 am 
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Ken Hands
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If Judd is still on big wages, then we are a joke and haven't learnt a thing. Can't blame Ratts for this latest signing. I really hope he is not on a massive salary or it shows that we still are an absolute basket case. He has been great and very glad we brought him over. Shame the club didn't improve enough to give him the support he needed.

Now that his best is behind him, it should be a case of substantially lower wages for him, free up some cap for one push for number 17 while he is still playing. However, if he is on big money still, which Judd can happily take if offered, the club is deluded. Means we aren't pushing for the top, nor are we rebuilding. At least the Saints worked out what their goal was and are taking definite steps. Like when Freo brought in Lyon as coach was about the first time they seemed like an actual AFL club, the Saints actually seem like hard-nosed, driven operators.

The Swans have made a premiership window for the next few years and are happy to have some pain later if it gets them another premiership soon. We just seem to meander in nowhere land, Richmond-like in ability and intent. No wonder Eddie wanted more if Judd could still command huge money.

Of cousre, if there was a massive pay cut, then this is all retracted and apparently we do know list management from our elbow.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:45 am 
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Ken Hands

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When does Waite's deal end? If we are going to question value for money over recent years I would be staring long and hard at Jarrad Waite before I would be glancing in Judd's direction.

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