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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
Port came to Melbourne last week and comfortably beat a team many people have as flag favourites.
We go to their home ground, lose our best KPP early in the game, compete hard and go down by 14 points.
Yet the usual whingers and sooks who seem to revel in negativity are jumping at the opportunity to espouse their usual negative crap.

No one is happy to lose. We all would like to win but let's be @#$%&! realistic. We won 2 games last year.
I want to see improvement and a reasonable increase in wins. So far our backline is performing better, our youngsters are getting opportunities and we've been highly competitive late in both our games. Let's get a reasonable sample size to assess our progression before getting the knives out.
Some posters only appear when there's something to sook about. @#$%&! pathetic.


See here’s the problem BV.

You and your glass half full, Bolton loving mates are constantly gilding the lily and just making shit up.

How the @#$%&! can anyone take any of you and your mob’s pronouncements seriously when you can make such glaring factual errors?

Not only do you class Charlie Curnow as a key position player despite the fact that he’s actually a back pocket who’s taller than Jonathan Brown but then in this post you go on to say that we lost to Port by 14 points!

IT WAS 16 @#$%&! POINTS!

16!

NOT 14!

NOT EVEN CLOSE!

CLOSE WOULD BE 15!

ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY @#$%&! WITH US?

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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:lol: :lol: :clap:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The Duke wrote:
We complain that our mid-20s players aren't good enough and that's the main reason we're shit. Let's look at the 23-26 year olds.

Docherty - recruited by MM
Cripps - Recruited by MM
Byrne - MM
Plowman - Bolton
Shaw - Bolton
Phillips - Bolton
Lamb - Bolton
Kerridge - Bolton
Mullet - Bolton
Oshea - Bolton


What's the point of a list re-build that needs re-building 3 years later?



The Duke wrote:
You guys have read my post the wrong way. I was referring to the players in their mid-20s - not comparing MM to BB. MM had more than his fair share of @#$%&! ups. But 3 of the mid-20 players are in our best.

The fact that those other 7 players, brought in as part of our list re-build, are in our best 24 players is an indication of where our club is at. They wouldn't be in most teams top 36.

I bet $100 that 5 are not with the club in 2 years. If they are - god help us.


I would've got my money in 1.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:04 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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When Malthouse or Bolton do the recruiting, get back to us. Until then, those posts are toilet paper in this thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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A lot of people spend a lot of energy blaming Malthouse for our woes.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
You seem to be missing the point. I'm not arguing whether or not Bolton accepts honourable losses and/or communicates the same to the player group, I am arguing that he has harnessed an environment where consistency of performance (including 4 quarter efforts) and a near enough is good enough attitude has festered. It is up to him and the coaching group to change this mindset within the player group and replace it with one that has both an edge to it and a pervading fear of losing. The next 2 weeks will be telling in this regard


OK so where is the proof? What evidence do you have that this is fact?

He has never said nor implied that "near enough is good enough"....


"We won't be measured by wins and losses."

Everybody in the comp is measured by wins and losses. That's why they bother to play the games at all.


Its not the same as what uncle zed posted. Your quote has nothing to do with what I queried. Anyway, How many wins and losses have other teams nominated this season? None no one has. Why should they "bother playing games" then?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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cecil89 wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
You seem to be missing the point. I'm not arguing whether or not Bolton accepts honourable losses and/or communicates the same to the player group, I am arguing that he has harnessed an environment where consistency of performance (including 4 quarter efforts) and a near enough is good enough attitude has festered. It is up to him and the coaching group to change this mindset within the player group and replace it with one that has both an edge to it and a pervading fear of losing. The next 2 weeks will be telling in this regard


OK so where is the proof? What evidence do you have that this is fact?

He has never said nor implied that "near enough is good enough"....


And I am saying that it is irrelevant what he says and does, and am judging Bolton on performance. We have won 3 games since 25 June 2017! Whatever he says in post game pressers or to the playing group is completely irrelevant until we see some sort of sustainable on field turnaround.



Wins are the best way to measure performance, but not the only way. You can be performing well in your job, but not getting wins on the field. Many on this forum will argue that is exactly what is happening right now. I think we can measure Bolton’s performance against what we think the team should be achieving on field. For me, it’s a pass mark so far in 2019. I didn’t expect us to win round 1 or 2. We were competitive in both games though. In contrast, the 2018 performance wasn’t up to scratch. I expected a 6-8 win season. We missed the mark by a long way.


Thank you, someone gets it! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Uncle Zel wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
You seem to be missing the point. I'm not arguing whether or not Bolton accepts honourable losses and/or communicates the same to the player group, I am arguing that he has harnessed an environment where consistency of performance (including 4 quarter efforts) and a near enough is good enough attitude has festered. It is up to him and the coaching group to change this mindset within the player group and replace it with one that has both an edge to it and a pervading fear of losing. The next 2 weeks will be telling in this regard


OK so where is the proof? What evidence do you have that this is fact?

He has never said nor implied that "near enough is good enough"....


And I am saying that it is irrelevant what he says and does, and am judging Bolton on performance. We have won 3 games since 25 June 2017! Whatever he says in post game pressers or to the playing group is completely irrelevant until we see some sort of sustainable on field turnaround.


Thats not what you said at all. Re-read the bolded part of your quote I was addressing. So again where is your proof that is fact?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Uncle Zel wrote:
There has been talk by so called "experts" and 200 game players about our supposed "improvement" since the Murphy Gibbs Krueze era. Rarely have we translated talk into action. Enough talk. Play 4 quarters of consistent football without the lapses that opposition sides capitalise on; win games we should win and even surprise us every now and then by winning games we shouldn't. My expectations aren't astronomical, I would argue that the broader supporter base has been too accepting of the messaging coming from the club and the near enough is good enough approach. SOS knows what its about with his bold move on draft night. No more talk. Show us


Unless you pencilled us to win one or both of our first two games before the season started, what the f$$% has changed?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:03 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Uncle Zel wrote:
Conditioning those on here to prepare for a loss to what some scribes referred to as the worst AFL list of all time



So when it suits your argument, you like to have it validated by the 'scribes' but when it doesn't, you dismiss it

Hypocrite!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Sidefx wrote:
Where is your proof of this and don't embarrass yourself by saying it's the win/loss column? Because you seem to be missing the point, that this is year 4 of a full rebuild with the 3rd youngest and 17th most experienced list in the AFL. What can't you get about the inconsistency of a young playing list? And it's not about the fear of losing (failure 1 as a coach), it's about having the confidence in winning and from any point during a game, which takes time.


He had lunch with Dennis Denuto

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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99prelim wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
There has been talk by so called "experts" and 200 game players about our supposed "improvement" since the Murphy Gibbs Krueze era. Rarely have we translated talk into action. Enough talk. Play 4 quarters of consistent football without the lapses that opposition sides capitalise on; win games we should win and even surprise us every now and then by winning games we shouldn't. My expectations aren't astronomical, I would argue that the broader supporter base has been too accepting of the messaging coming from the club and the near enough is good enough approach. SOS knows what its about with his bold move on draft night. No more talk. Show us


Unless you pencilled us to win one or both of our first two games before the season started, what the f$$% has changed?


Midway through the 2nd qtr of round 1, the score was Richmond 40 Carlton 1.

I didn't expect that.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:25 pm 
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Robert Walls

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The Duke wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
There has been talk by so called "experts" and 200 game players about our supposed "improvement" since the Murphy Gibbs Krueze era. Rarely have we translated talk into action. Enough talk. Play 4 quarters of consistent football without the lapses that opposition sides capitalise on; win games we should win and even surprise us every now and then by winning games we shouldn't. My expectations aren't astronomical, I would argue that the broader supporter base has been too accepting of the messaging coming from the club and the near enough is good enough approach. SOS knows what its about with his bold move on draft night. No more talk. Show us


Unless you pencilled us to win one or both of our first two games before the season started, what the f$$% has changed?


Midway through the 2nd qtr of round 1, the score was Richmond 40 Carlton 1.

I didn't expect that.


What's your point?
Last time I checked, the game is decided by the scores after 4 quarters

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
You seem to be missing the point. I'm not arguing whether or not Bolton accepts honourable losses and/or communicates the same to the player group, I am arguing that he has harnessed an environment where consistency of performance (including 4 quarter efforts) and a near enough is good enough attitude has festered. It is up to him and the coaching group to change this mindset within the player group and replace it with one that has both an edge to it and a pervading fear of losing. The next 2 weeks will be telling in this regard


OK so where is the proof? What evidence do you have that this is fact?

He has never said nor implied that "near enough is good enough"....


"We won't be measured by wins and losses."

Everybody in the comp is measured by wins and losses. That's why they bother to play the games at all.


Its not the same as what uncle zed posted. Your quote has nothing to do with what I queried. Anyway, How many wins and losses have other teams nominated this season? None no one has. Why should they "bother playing games" then?

'Intimated' is pretty broad in its concept. It's in the eye of the beholder.
How many other teams have said they won't be measured by wins and losses? None.
That matters not.
Like it or not, the teams are measured by wins and losses. Check the ladder. It's how the finals are decided, how the draft is decided and how the fixture is decided. Wins and losses. Nothing else matters.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
I was listening to Nick Riewoldt and Gary Lyon talking about Carlton this morning. That said they can definitely see an improvement in our system, our game style, our defence and improvement in our young midfielders.
Now, I'm not saying 200 game+ AFL players know as much as our esteemed negative Nancy's but I thought it could be worth mentioning
Yes I agree with Gary and Nick I thought Pickett was really solid in defence as well

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:46 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

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99prelim wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
Conditioning those on here to prepare for a loss to what some scribes referred to as the worst AFL list of all time



So when it suits your argument, you like to have it validated by the 'scribes' but when it doesn't, you dismiss it

Hypocrite!!!


Not even worth responding because you are deliberately evading my point. How highly do you rate GCs list? Would your bullish views on the rate of our development change if we lost to them?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:51 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

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In saying all this, Bolton can shut me and I suspect others up by winning some games. 3 wins in close to 2 years is incredibly grim, and it is a credit to the club and its supporters that the dam wall has seemingly stayed upright despite our on field ineptitude. I often look to the Dogs of 16 this year and wonder why our expectations are so low, and the fact some on here are bracing themselves for losses to clear dwellers like the Gold Coast indicates to me that we rally need to aim higher.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:59 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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If you watched some of their 1st two games (suns), you would know they are in excellent form with a LOT of talent..and even more to come in to the team later this year. I reckon Brisbane can make the 8 and Suns..who knows. Should be a ripper game between us and them. Hopefully we can beat them. The standard they are at means if they win it is not because we are so poor..but because they are really a good team now. That's AFL...not much between teams anymore..and think how much help and talent that team has! Stewie Dew has galvanised them and has obvious coaching talent. So perhaps they were always further ahead but were poorly run and coached. Not the same situation as us..as we are being well run as a club
And have only just got the list together after massive turn overs. ( in expectation of your replies cabal of naysayers. :razz: )

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:35 am 
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Bruce Doull
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99prelim wrote:
The Duke wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Uncle Zel wrote:
There has been talk by so called "experts" and 200 game players about our supposed "improvement" since the Murphy Gibbs Krueze era. Rarely have we translated talk into action. Enough talk. Play 4 quarters of consistent football without the lapses that opposition sides capitalise on; win games we should win and even surprise us every now and then by winning games we shouldn't. My expectations aren't astronomical, I would argue that the broader supporter base has been too accepting of the messaging coming from the club and the near enough is good enough approach. SOS knows what its about with his bold move on draft night. No more talk. Show us


Unless you pencilled us to win one or both of our first two games before the season started, what the f$$% has changed?


Midway through the 2nd qtr of round 1, the score was Richmond 40 Carlton 1.

I didn't expect that.


What's your point?
Last time I checked, the game is decided by the scores after 4 quarters


Yeah fair point, but my point is that we came out after a 7 month break and couldn't even find a goal in the first 45 minutes of footy.

It's not like we'd just been on a long road trip, or off a 5 day break. We finished last in 2018 and should've come out breathing fire. We came out like pussies and ran in circles.

Over the next 2 years we're most likely to lose Simmo, Murphy, Thomas and Kreuzer - that's nearly 1000 games of experience gone. That will make us a very young and inexperienced team that will get flogged week in week out.

Welcome to Groundhog Day.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:43 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The Duke wrote:
Welcome to Groundhog Day.


That's how I feel about Carlton's performance for as long as TC has been around.

Sack the coach -> team doesn't climb the ladder -> sack the coach -> team doesn't climb the ladder -> sack the coach..........

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