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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:38 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Maybe Teague has saved his job.
That was our best last game loss in many a year

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@#$%&! me we supporters are in an awful position mentally when this is both grim and very funny at the same time.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:51 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Looks like tomorrow David will be told he won't be coaching in 2022.

He did well to injection some enthusiasm when he took over by getting the team to kick some bigger scores.

But the defensive lapses in recent times have been really significant, sadly.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:34 am 
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Craig Bradley
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We made immediate improvement under Teague after Bolts but I wondered at the time if that was because the change in coach provided the circuit breaker we needed, rather than because Teague was a better coach.

Outside looking in, I find it very hard to measure the performance of a coach. There are so many factors that produce what we see on game day - it can be wrong to attribute lack of success entirely to the head coach. So the review was a positive initiative because hopefully it provides a holistic assessment of the coaching program. If Teague is doing a good job but there’s something else that needs to be fixed, that will be uncovered and Teague will be better supported next year.

Alternatively, if the review finds that things are bad because of the direction (or lack thereof) or communication of the head coach then the board is entitled to move him on. In that event, the next bit is the part which concerns me.

How do we select the next coach? I would be inclined to convene a selection panel comprising of the CEO, at least one member of the review panel and an external recruitment expert with experience in recruitment of AFL coaches. If Clarkson/Lyon don’t want to participate in that process then so be it (bearing in mind it’s a $800K p.a. job, for a club with excellent connections and a list with young talent). For me, it’s vital we match the appointment with our bespoke needs and not just appoint based on past success at another club.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:40 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I've wondered for years whether we simply recruit dumb footballers who never know how to do two things.

Under Ratten and Teague it was all attack and no clue how to defend.

Under Malthouse and Bolton it was defence without an attacking clue, and the question of whether Ross would be the same.

The fact that we're still asking these questions years later is an indictment.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:42 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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“I absolutely believe in this group. I think they will be a very good side. I think they have got the ability, if they get all the players back, get some cohesion together to be right up there in the top four next year.”

David Teague


Either Teague is correct or Walsh is correct (VFL quality list full of pea hearts) or both are wrong.

Both cannot be right.

Hmmmm…

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:35 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Posts: 1827
Don't know why, but I'm warming to Ross Lyon.
I have heard several past players who played under him at his two previous clubs speak in glowing terms about his coaching ability. I think his no nonsense approach is just what we need. Enough of the give me a hug approach. We need someone who can manage and motivate men but has a ruthless edge required at this level.
I don't think DT has the ruthless edge. I was getting concerned with Teague once he started commentating publically about giving the boys a half time spray.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:37 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3261
aboynamedsue wrote:
We made immediate improvement under Teague after Bolts but I wondered at the time if that was because the change in coach provided the circuit breaker we needed, rather than because Teague was a better coach.

Outside looking in, I find it very hard to measure the performance of a coach. There are so many factors that produce what we see on game day - it can be wrong to attribute lack of success entirely to the head coach. So the review was a positive initiative because hopefully it provides a holistic assessment of the coaching program. If Teague is doing a good job but there’s something else that needs to be fixed, that will be uncovered and Teague will be better supported next year.

Alternatively, if the review finds that things are bad because of the direction (or lack thereof) or communication of the head coach then the board is entitled to move him on. In that event, the next bit is the part which concerns me.

How do we select the next coach? I would be inclined to convene a selection panel comprising of the CEO, at least one member of the review panel and an external recruitment expert with experience in recruitment of AFL coaches. If Clarkson/Lyon don’t want to participate in that process then so be it (bearing in mind it’s a $800K p.a. job, for a club with excellent connections and a list with young talent). For me, it’s vital we match the appointment with our bespoke needs and not just appoint based on past success at another club.


I follow that - thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:48 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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I know I'm going to get slapped down a bit here but just MY observation on ourselves; the supporters

In one breath, we say the the team and the organisation have been too nice, too politically correct, not ruthless or hard-edged enough over the years

We then see what at least appears to be a scathing review that is trying (from my perspective anyway) to stop papering over the cracks of the past and hold the footy dept (the only real department mpst of us have an affinity with) to account AND SUDDENLY, the manipulative media find a new angle and get us all second guessing the timing of the review, the 'lack of support', the narrative, the leaks, the deliberate probing questions for DT designed to elicit empathy etc. etc. AND many continue with this Teague-the-martyr, Teague-the-scapegoat, Teague-the-unsupported talk...

Professional sport politics is brutal and leaves casualties...that's why they're paid $$$ that most people only dream about

Harry M Miller said, "I don't know what leadership is but I know what it is NOT...It is NOT about making everybody happy"

Maybe as supporters, some of us need to find our hard edge again...it is soooooooooo clear he is out of his depth

Do I know that we will get the next coach right?...NFW...it scares the beejesus out of me

Do I know that Teague is NOT the coach for us moving forward?...In my head, 100%

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
99prelim wrote:
I know I'm going to get slapped down a bit here but just MY observation on ourselves; the supporters

In one breath, we say the the team and the organisation have been too nice, too politically correct, not ruthless or hard-edged enough over the years

We then see what at least appears to be a scathing review that is trying (from my perspective anyway) to stop papering over the cracks of the past and hold the footy dept (the only real department mpst of us have an affinity with) to account AND SUDDENLY, the manipulative media find a new angle and get us all second guessing the timing of the review, the 'lack of support', the narrative, the leaks, the deliberate probing questions for DT designed to elicit empathy etc. etc. AND many continue with this Teague-the-martyr, Teague-the-scapegoat, Teague-the-unsupported talk...

Professional sport politics is brutal and leaves casualties...that's why they're paid $$$ that most people only dream about

Harry M Miller said, "I don't know what leadership is but I know what it is NOT...It is NOT about making everybody happy"

Maybe as supporters, some of us need to find our hard edge again...it is soooooooooo clear he is out of his depth

Do I know that we will get the next coach right?...NFW...it scares the beejesus out of me

Do I know that Teague is NOT the coach for us moving forward?...In my head, 100%


Great post !! And you have summed up the mood on here except for maybe one person who shall remain nameless and it will be interesting to see if he re appears after teagues pending demise

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:29 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 765
billc3 wrote:
zoneman wrote:
Thanks for all the input from everyone. I know there is a divide amongst all you fine people about what is happening to Teague. Forgive me if this has been covered. I haven't read all the posts. It's very upsetting, this roadshow. If Teague goes or stays, the board should reassess their place. There should be an extraordinary AGM; I don't know if there is petition as such. If someone can direct me to the it, if there is one, I'd be grateful.

Some of my thoughts FWIW:
1. Teague's appointment didn't follow the correct protocols.
2. He's done a fair job since his appointment but it has been below expectations.
3. He may not have been told, leading people to believe that he is gone. I don't think that is necessarily the case. They may be seeing how he goes tonight and then they can get a clearer picture. The football department; however, should have communicated with him as he has pointed out.
4. The review should have begun at the end of the year so that this media circus could have been avoided.
5. He can coach but needs improvement and the proper support.
6. He should have been allowed to bring in his own people when appointed.
7. He has played Sam Petrevski-Seton in the wrong positions and should have been given better opportunities as Eddie Betts pointed out, in the midfield. That also goes with Marc Murphy. He should have been played where he's best suited, which is a midfielder. He's gone now and that's a good thing so it's a moot point but I thought it important to mention.
8. He has been treated poorly which I sort-of covered here. It's not a good look for the club
9. He deserves a another chance. I'm not convinced but we chose him and he probably hasn't been given a proper chance but hat is just my opinion. One more year I think is fair, but again, thais is my own humble opinion.
10. It's a confusing time for everyone and whatever happens, we don't have much control but we can adjust the board situation if the will is there.

I hope this post finds you all well. I personally am struggling with all that's going on. I'd rather not go into the complexity with what's happening in our state and country but I'm not well. I hope things improve for me and for all of us.

Peace to you all and thank you for having me back.
Look after yourself Zoneman.... That's the most important thing at this stage...

Go Blues


Thanks Bill.

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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:52 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3261
azzablue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
I know I'm going to get slapped down a bit here but just MY observation on ourselves; the supporters

In one breath, we say the the team and the organisation have been too nice, too politically correct, not ruthless or hard-edged enough over the years

We then see what at least appears to be a scathing review that is trying (from my perspective anyway) to stop papering over the cracks of the past and hold the footy dept (the only real department mpst of us have an affinity with) to account AND SUDDENLY, the manipulative media find a new angle and get us all second guessing the timing of the review, the 'lack of support', the narrative, the leaks, the deliberate probing questions for DT designed to elicit empathy etc. etc. AND many continue with this Teague-the-martyr, Teague-the-scapegoat, Teague-the-unsupported talk...

Professional sport politics is brutal and leaves casualties...that's why they're paid $$$ that most people only dream about

Harry M Miller said, "I don't know what leadership is but I know what it is NOT...It is NOT about making everybody happy"

Maybe as supporters, some of us need to find our hard edge again...it is soooooooooo clear he is out of his depth

Do I know that we will get the next coach right?...NFW...it scares the beejesus out of me

Do I know that Teague is NOT the coach for us moving forward?...In my head, 100%


Great post !! And you have summed up the mood on here except for maybe one person who shall remain nameless and it will be interesting to see if he re appears after teagues pending demise


Brutal? Let’s be ‘brutal’

I dont know who first introduced the brutal descriptor around here, and to what extent to apply it, ill try my best.....

Let’s all buy into this being a brutal business and DT should take responsibility for his role. Move him on if the review calls for that. Done.

However, inconsistent with the commentary that “this is a brutal business”, is the lack of commentary around the responsibility of those that put him in charge. The same group that voted on Bolton, Malthouse, Ratten....

Those in charge fail to be ‘brutal’ with their own performance. They fail to front up. This week, our exiting president spoke about his successes during the last 12 years, yet made no mention of what we have learnt experimenting with our football department every 2-3 years.

A review of out football operations should not exclude a ‘brutal’ assessment of the process and decision making of those that ratify our football decisions and investments.

Yes, sometimes football is a brutal business.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:57 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
What I find interesting is that I do not recall any mention of his assistants during this time other than saying he hadn’t had enough help.

That can read in 2 ways; either it’s a bit of a backhander in that his assistants hadn’t helped him enough because they were overloaded or that his assistants haven’t done their job because they weren’t capable enough.

The lack of support he has seemed to give to his assistants publicly would lead towards the latter.

If the review finds that Teague should stay I am ok with that but there must be assistants who work on these defensive deficiencies. He needs to come out and demonstrate, not just talk change.

The main reason why most of us are frustrated is because we see nothing changing in regards to this. Nothing has seemingly been done for 2 years about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:59 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
I should add that I think the CEO needs to be reviewed.

I am surprised he was not part of those to be reviewed and in fact was a reviewer.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:15 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Posts: 765
I feel for our coach. He's been treated poorly. He will probably go. I'm not comfortable with this though. He deserves a chance but I don't think this is going to happen. I think everyone needs to look at themselves at our club. Everyone. Everything at our club has to be assessed. Everything.

Sent from my CPH1835 using Tapatalk

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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:15 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 765
CarltonClem wrote:
I should add that I think the CEO needs to be reviewed.

I am surprised he was not part of those to be reviewed and in fact was a reviewer.
Agreed.

Sent from my CPH1835 using Tapatalk

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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:24 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 765
I will be waiting with interest, as we all are about what happens. I have a feeling it's not going to be what everyone expects. I can't prove it and I could be wrong but we'll see. I know I'm contradicting myself from my previous posts but there's something different about this that's making me wonder.


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1945 - End of round 3 Carlton was last.

Last round Carlton made the final four for the first time.

Eventual premiers.

That's what I'm talking about!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:26 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2078
london blue wrote:
azzablue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
I know I'm going to get slapped down a bit here but just MY observation on ourselves; the supporters

In one breath, we say the the team and the organisation have been too nice, too politically correct, not ruthless or hard-edged enough over the years

We then see what at least appears to be a scathing review that is trying (from my perspective anyway) to stop papering over the cracks of the past and hold the footy dept (the only real department mpst of us have an affinity with) to account AND SUDDENLY, the manipulative media find a new angle and get us all second guessing the timing of the review, the 'lack of support', the narrative, the leaks, the deliberate probing questions for DT designed to elicit empathy etc. etc. AND many continue with this Teague-the-martyr, Teague-the-scapegoat, Teague-the-unsupported talk...

Professional sport politics is brutal and leaves casualties...that's why they're paid $$$ that most people only dream about

Harry M Miller said, "I don't know what leadership is but I know what it is NOT...It is NOT about making everybody happy"

Maybe as supporters, some of us need to find our hard edge again...it is soooooooooo clear he is out of his depth

Do I know that we will get the next coach right?...NFW...it scares the beejesus out of me

Do I know that Teague is NOT the coach for us moving forward?...In my head, 100%


Great post !! And you have summed up the mood on here except for maybe one person who shall remain nameless and it will be interesting to see if he re appears after teagues pending demise


Brutal? Let’s be ‘brutal’

I dont know who first introduced the brutal descriptor around here, and to what extent to apply it, ill try my best.....

Let’s all buy into this being a brutal business and DT should take responsibility for his role. Move him on if the review calls for that. Done.

However, inconsistent with the commentary that “this is a brutal business”, is the lack of commentary around the responsibility of those that put him in charge. The same group that voted on Bolton, Malthouse, Ratten....

Those in charge fail to be ‘brutal’ with their own performance. They fail to front up. This week, our exiting president spoke about his successes during the last 12 years, yet made no mention of what we have learnt experimenting with our football department every 2-3 years.

A review of out football operations should not exclude a ‘brutal’ assessment of the process and decision making of those that ratify our football decisions and investments.

Yes, sometimes football is a brutal business.


Fully agree with your post

Talk about a lack of accountability at this club. It’s easy for the club and it’s supporters to continually blame the coach for our ineptitude over an extended period. It makes us all feel better that the club is seen to have done something to arrest the decline.

However, the bigger questions are why does the board systematically choose the wrong coach, wrong CEO, football manager etc. Why is the messaging so poor? Why do we continually struggle to develop players? Why do we struggle to stand for anything?

Even the pursue of Clarkson or Lyon seems like we are throwing all our eggs into the same basket again.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:40 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7739
Location: Bendigo
I keep coming back to two key moments…

1 - The title given to Playfair
2 - The Worsfold embarrassment

Oftentimes, titles don’t mean all that much. They’re generalised and a lot of duties are assumed… but, Director of Coaching Performance signals clear intent to apply consistent heat on the coaching staff.

I wonder if Teague would’ve applied for the job if he knew that the ‘additional support’ was actually going to be part of his oversight… and how many prospective assistants let the phone ring out, knowing that there was a permanent toe cutter waiting for them if they took the job?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
zoneman wrote:
CarltonClem wrote:
I should add that I think the CEO needs to be reviewed.

I am surprised he was not part of those to be reviewed and in fact was a reviewer.
Agreed.

Sent from my CPH1835 using Tapatalk

I second that !!

The whole club focus has been all about so called debt of the club and forgot the importance and significance of makes Carlton , Carlton and that’s performances on the ground

It has been abysmal 2 and half years without a doubt

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
Crusader wrote:
I keep coming back to two key moments…

1 - The title given to Playfair
2 - The Worsfold embarrassment

Oftentimes, titles don’t mean all that much. They’re generalised and a lot of duties are assumed… but, Director of Coaching Performance signals clear intent to apply consistent heat on the coaching staff.

I wonder if Teague would’ve applied for the job if he knew that the ‘additional support’ was actually going to be part of his oversight… and how many prospective assistants let the phone ring out, knowing that there was a permanent toe cutter waiting for them if they took the job?

Teague knew what he was getting himself into the moment he sided with liddle 2 years ago ,, and the rest is history

He tried to do a Neo but chose the wrong pill ,

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