Absolute disgrace?

Gee, I'm glad we're not being dramatic.
Rattens job is to give us the best opportunity to win games. If someone dropped out against Freo, his role is to bring the best available player in to counter the opposition. He believed it was Browne, that's it.

I'm sure that if Steven Browne was given the choice to be an emergency or play for the Bullants, he'd take the trip everytime.

In one thread Ratten is being bitched at for not making the hard decisions, then he's being bitched at for making them. If Browne is put a week behind, big deal. The primary concern is to win games for the CFC.

BTW, more than half the team has played less than 50 games. That's getting game time into kids and developing them.
There's too much sooking about the negatives instead of looking at the positives around here atm.
Well done MC.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Wiggins can help out the trainers at the breaks cut up the oranges...very surprised this bloke survived the cut....I'd like to see to Wiggins started on the bench and have us try either Thornton across HF or Kruezer/Hampson swapping through there. Wiggins can be our secret weapon for later on if all else fails...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

cj69's posts are best when he uses IMO IMO.

Good call, BV.

For weeks we've asked for the MC to cut the deadwood and replace it with some new blood with an eye for the future.

We've done exactly that this weekend by dropping Cloke for Robbo.

It's taken 6 weeks, but they've finally made the right decision.

Good job MC.

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just on browne ...

i think he's a very organised, compact, clean player who can, and will, step up to AFL level ...

however, he needs to improve his work rate / intensity when he's NOT in the contest. from what i've seen of him in the bullants this year, he does quite well when directly involved in the contest but then he seems to become a spectator. in this era of zones, frontal pressure, blah blah he would do his cause no harm to match his off-ball intensity to his on-ball work ...

while i am a bit critical of our structures at the moment i think a guy like browne needs to become more pro-active in order to get himself to the level that i reckon he belongs ...

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

BV

My primary concern for the club would be to win a premiership not the odd game.

Since when is 9 out of 22 more than half the team?

The negative vs positive remark is unjustifiable. Realism is the beginning of success.

In regards to Browne I stand by my original statement. Having a developing player on the sideline for three weeks when he is just starting to play some decent and consistent football is totally wrong. If our man management was structured to a competent level then a more senior player should of made the trip. There was no doubts on any player and the chance Browne played was minimal.

I would swap it around a little

B: Bret Thornton, Michael Jamison, Dennis Armfield
HB: Heath Scotland , Paul Bower, Aaron Joseph
C: Kade Simpson, Richard Hadley, Bryce Gibbs
HF: Mitch Robinson, Jarrad Waite , Matthew Kreuzer
F: Eddie Betts, Brendan Fevola, Chris Yarran
Foll: Shaun Hampson, Chris Judd, Marc Murphy
Int: Nick Stevens, Simon Wiggins, Jordan Russell, Mark Austin

If can play Waite out of the backline then slap him up at CHF so we can FINALLY have a good marking target up there. Kreuzer could do Wiggin's job as a 3rd tall x1000 better, and his roving and tackling is AWESOME. The backline looks a little top heavy IMO with Austin back there so Joseph takes the second small defender role (this is where I wish we had Browne in the side over Wiggins !!!!!!!!!) and give Hadley a role in the midfield and put him on notice to pick up his game or he will be in trouble.

I think the forward 6 can all apply A LOT of forward defensive preasure and lock the ball in the forward 50, the back 6 is a nice blend of tall (Bower, Jamison, Thornton) and small (Armfield and Joseph) with Scotland playing a floating/rebounding role and our centre 6 will kill their midfield (if they ALL pull their weight !!!!!!!)

I'd push Thornton up to CHF and Waite to a wing/HB...and you're right Wiggins just doesn't fit in to the mix does he??? Hadley has a question mark over him as well.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Can't see the ruckmen resting at centre half forward, or Hampson rucking for 100 minutes.

How much better would we look with Grigg and Walker on the bench (or on the field) instead of Wiggins and Russel (or Stevens/Hadley if they don't pull their finger out)............

Not sure how Thornton would go as a lead up CHF ........... Thought about it, but he has had little to no exposure there for years from what I can gather ........... Il'd prefer Waite up there (proven marking target and goal kicker). I can see Waite's value on the wing, but a Houlihan/Kreuzer/Gibbs could all play similar roles and not quite be as effective up forward at CHF (Kreuzer will get there, but not yet. Let him grow into his body some more, he is still 19 after all ..........)

Il'd play Kreuzer as the 3rd tall, link up player. He can go ruck when Hampson needs a rest, and Austin/Wiggins can take over while he is rucking. That said, the Pie's don't have a great ruck division at the best of times, it shouldn't be as physical an affair as say a Sydney (against Jolly) or Freo (against Sandilands) game so Hampson will prob (hopefully) be able to handle a fair amount of the ruck work .........

No question about the value added via Walks and Grigg and Carazzo for that matter...hopefully when a couple of them are back we can continue to weed out the extra baggage.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Not bad KP

I personally would like to see a few different things to change the predicability of our side:

B: Dennis Armfield, Michael Jamison, Mark Austin
HB: Bryce Gibbs, Paul Bower, Jordan Russell
C: Kade Simpson, Marc Murphy, Jarrad Waite
HF: Mitch Robinson, Bret Thornton, Chris Yarran
F: Matthew Kreuzer, Brendan Fevola, Eddie Betts
Foll: Shaun Hampson, Chris Judd, Aaron Joseph
Int: Nick Stevens, Richard Hadley, Heath Scotland, Simon Wiggins

Collingwood aren't tall up forward so we need to watch that.
Thornton to play CHF.
Robinson to push into midfield.
Gibbs to play Quarterback role and Waite to drop back and help.
Kruezer up fwd with Hammer doing most of the ruck. When Hammer has a rest, Kruezer into ruck and Wiggins in as lead up CHF changing dynamic.
Wiggins could also be a genuine match up for Medhurst
AJ as part of midfield rotation.
4 bench players to come on when heat is out of the game as they all lack genuine leg speed.

I reckon that's about the perfect side for us at the moment. That forward line nearly looks dangerous

Indicates to me that Cloke is out injured and O'hAilpin has replaced him as an emergency.

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What we really needed most was another tall option up forward ... unfortunately the Match Committee has stuffed up again ... 3 weeks in a row. Fisher should have come into the side.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Fisher and Wiggins up forward... ...its enough that Wiggins is still there. I would have gone an extra runner like a Garlett and left Wiggins out.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Just on this, I've broken it down to a very basic categorisation for this week's 22:

2 ruckmen
3 KPP (1 forward, 1 back, 1 swingman)
3 tall flankers (3 backs)
2 medium flankers (2 forwards)
4 medium midfielders (1 defensive)
5 small midfielders (1 defensive)
3 small flankers (2 forward, 1 swingman)

A flanker is either a guy I can't see pushing into a regular midfield role for this game (whether it be through fitness level or skill set), or conversely, taking a key post at either end.

From this it becomes a little bit obvious where we have issues, and why a guy like Robinson adds a lot to our team. We've gone from a glut of medium size players who can take a grab to virtually none, and what's worse, we technically don't have a medium defender. I personally think that medium-size players can provide favourable match-ups for you and come into their own, especially late in games.

Looking at it this way, Johnson's role in the team (presuming he performs it effectively) is critical.

The other disturbing number is the capacity of our smaller players. Having three blokes in Yarran, Armfield & Betts who I feel cannot play more than 50% game time in midfield is costing us through the middle; at times we've even seen Waite or Kreuzer in the mix. However, I see this as a short term issue.

But essentially from this, we need to cut a defensive tall from the 22 (could be anyone of Thornton, Bower and Austin at this point), bring in a medium defender and find another regular option to play medium forward aside from Wiggins (Robinson isn't ready for regular footy yet, and Houla failed in this role). My suggestion is Gibbs, although Ratts seems to favour Judd.

How I would have liked to see us line-up this week (depending on Collingwood's structure):

FB: Armfield Jamison Bower
HB: Anderson Thornton Scotland
C: Simpson Murphy Russell
HF: Gibbs Waite Wiggins
FF: Betts Fevola Jospeh
R: Kreuzer Judd Stevens
Int: Hadley Robinson Hampson Yarran

So it would appear I've come around to your way of thinking with Ando cj, albeit due to the following list more than anything else:

Walker
Carrazzo
Johnson
Grigg
Houlihan

All are either injured or in poor form, so in comes Robinson, and maybe it should have been Ando too.

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Is it odd that Setanta was not in the original squad but is named as emergency? Could there be a late change? Not sure why Cloke would be named in the squad anyway. But normally the 25 squad are the side and emergencies.

Rarely do you see a side make 8 changes. We really should win this easily against an ordinary side with a severe injury list who are coming off an 88pt drubbing and have 2 less days to recover (altho 'recovery' appears not such a priority for us). We should win and if we lose I don't expect to hear about how inexperienced we are and how we would have won if only this or that....just win!