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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Donstuie wrote:
We should rename this forum TalkingAnalogies.

We're on fire in this area.


For me, it will be TalkingAnalgesics

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: North of the border
99prelim wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Braithy wrote:
I wish (I know, I know) that we never had the injuries this season, so we could fairly and properly appraise bolton. Due the injuries Bolton will get another year as our coach. If it turns out bolton can't coach (there's enough eveidence to at least raise an alarm to this possibility), we as supporters and as a club spend another season lost like this one.
I haven't agreed with much of your thoughts this season, but I do agree with this one.

Bolton needs at least one season with a fully fit list for his abilities to be properly judged IMO. The issue of whether or not he can actually coach has this year been clouded by other circumstances out of his control. Injuries are one, lack of mid-age talent another.

If the other factors aren't present next year but we still finish near the bottom, we'll have our answer.


We may well have the answer by round 2 (assuming the fixture is similar to this year)

We lose to GC at home and Bolton can start clearing his office. The rot started then. How FKN dare Murphy say that the players didn't take that game seriously...what, just because they kicked the first 5 goals against Rich the week before?
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3546
Sydney Blue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Braithy wrote:
I wish (I know, I know) that we never had the injuries this season, so we could fairly and properly appraise bolton. Due the injuries Bolton will get another year as our coach. If it turns out bolton can't coach (there's enough eveidence to at least raise an alarm to this possibility), we as supporters and as a club spend another season lost like this one.
I haven't agreed with much of your thoughts this season, but I do agree with this one.

Bolton needs at least one season with a fully fit list for his abilities to be properly judged IMO. The issue of whether or not he can actually coach has this year been clouded by other circumstances out of his control. Injuries are one, lack of mid-age talent another.

If the other factors aren't present next year but we still finish near the bottom, we'll have our answer.


We may well have the answer by round 2 (assuming the fixture is similar to this year)

We lose to GC at home and Bolton can start clearing his office. The rot started then. How FKN dare Murphy say that the players didn't take that game seriously...what, just because they kicked the first 5 goals against Rich the week before?
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


What in the hell is this world coming to SB? I actually AGREE with you!!!!!

8 wins is a MINIMUM if we believe that this year was an anomaly

Maybe 2 of first 5 would be my only tweak

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Donstuie wrote:
We should rename this forum TalkingAnalogies.

We're on fire in this area.


:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Posts: 28225
Sydney Blue wrote:
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Depending on injuries, that's not unreasonable.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Sydney Blue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Braithy wrote:
I wish (I know, I know) that we never had the injuries this season, so we could fairly and properly appraise bolton. Due the injuries Bolton will get another year as our coach. If it turns out bolton can't coach (there's enough eveidence to at least raise an alarm to this possibility), we as supporters and as a club spend another season lost like this one.
I haven't agreed with much of your thoughts this season, but I do agree with this one.

Bolton needs at least one season with a fully fit list for his abilities to be properly judged IMO. The issue of whether or not he can actually coach has this year been clouded by other circumstances out of his control. Injuries are one, lack of mid-age talent another.

If the other factors aren't present next year but we still finish near the bottom, we'll have our answer.


We may well have the answer by round 2 (assuming the fixture is similar to this year)

We lose to GC at home and Bolton can start clearing his office. The rot started then. How FKN dare Murphy say that the players didn't take that game seriously...what, just because they kicked the first 5 goals against Rich the week before?
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


I actually agree with this also as long as the injuries are under control and we have a fair draw in the first half.

My only tweak would be 6 of 22 as a pass but I would like to aim for 8 also.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3546
Rexy wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Depending on injuries, that's not unreasonable.


Injuries cannot be an excuse next year

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Posts: 28225
99prelim wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Depending on injuries, that's not unreasonable.


Injuries cannot be an excuse next year


It's illogical to disregard injuries.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5919
99prelim wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Depending on injuries, that's not unreasonable.


Injuries cannot be an excuse next year


Agreed. It will be interesting to see what the million dollar injection to the football department does to prevent these injuries.

They might need to get hold of Sam Murrays guy. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: The Brown Wedge
Donstuie wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I've been waiting all year for a suitable answer to this, and it still rings true.

What. Is. The. Alternative?


You start looking and the alternative will present itself.

I'd prefer to hear your version


What's to hear? How did we replace Malthouse, Pagan, Ratts, Parkin? It's a job that every other club has been able to do for years, yet we can't replace a coach that's just taken us backwards to our worst ever season after 3 years?

If we can't perform this fundamental task, then we're a club in paralysis.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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So if Cripps Charlie and Harry do knees then that is no excuse for not meeting those KPI's ...?

Illogical.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Rexy wrote:
So if Cripps Charlie and Harry do knees then that is no excuse for not meeting those KPI's ...?

Illogical.


That's funny I actually read Prelim's comment as, we don't want the injury excuse next year. i.e. let's hope we have no excuses of injuries.

I didn't think of it the way you put it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
So if Cripps Charlie and Harry do knees then that is no excuse for not meeting those KPI's ...?

Illogical.


Thanks for summarising your own post, Rexy :smile: .

Obviously, injuries have played a part, but not to the extent of our woes. I mean, FFS :roll: .

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
The Duke wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I've been waiting all year for a suitable answer to this, and it still rings true.

What. Is. The. Alternative?


You start looking and the alternative will present itself.

I'd prefer to hear your version


What's to hear? How did we replace Malthouse, Pagan, Ratts, Parkin? It's a job that every other club has been able to do for years, yet we can't replace a coach that's just taken us backwards to our worst ever season after 3 years?

If we can't perform this fundamental task, then we're a club in paralysis.

All those guys had 4 years or more to give it a shot and (outside of Pagan) none were handed a gutted playing list to work with.

What else have you got?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:21 pm
Posts: 202
The Duke wrote:
We're 5-10 years behind the movement of clubs like Essendon** and North - which is terrifying!! Not only do you not need to 'bottom out' anymore, it's now a completely dumb and outdated strategy.

Essendon** will get another couple of good kids plus a free agent or two and have the base to grow for a flag.... while we're still trying to determine whether Bolton can actually coach :banghead: .


We are 5-10 years behind Essendon*?

We beat them this year.
We also split results with them last year.

2018 is a wipeout year. It is very hard to judge where we truly are since our health and injury has been diabolical and our coaches have had shocking years. Surely those two aspects have to improve next year; it can't get any worse.

When we did have our defensive structures in place during 2016 & 2017 we were a damn hard team to play: we beat Geelong, Hawthorn & Sydney during that time.

Maybe I am an ostrich with my head in the sand, but I really feel we are not as bad as our 2018 results show.

But no doubt Brendon Bolton needs to be much MUCH better next year, otherwise he will be gone.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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dlb99 wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We're 5-10 years behind the movement of clubs like Essendon*** and North - which is terrifying!! Not only do you not need to 'bottom out' anymore, it's now a completely dumb and outdated strategy.

Essendon*** will get another couple of good kids plus a free agent or two and have the base to grow for a flag.... while we're still trying to determine whether Bolton can actually coach :banghead: .


We are 5-10 years behind Essendon**?

We beat them this year.
We also split results with them last year.

2018 is a wipeout year. It is very hard to judge where we truly are since our health and injury has been diabolical and our coaches have had shocking years. Surely those two aspects have to improve next year; it can't get any worse.

When we did have our defensive structures in place during 2016 & 2017 we were a damn hard team to play: we beat Geelong, Hawthorn & Sydney during that time.

Maybe I am an ostrich with my head in the sand, but I really feel we are not as bad as our 2018 results show.

But no doubt Brendon Bolton needs to be much MUCH better next year, otherwise he will be gone.


No, we're 5-10 years behind the comp. We're 3 years behind Essendon*. They have a much stronger, more mentally tough team than us. Now they can use FA AND the draft to build. We'll probably lose another 10 players this year to retirement and de-listing. The chances Doch will come in and help us to 8 wins is almost zilch.

We recruited ASOS and delisted others - now ASOS is gone. Was he part of our long term plan? That wreaks of Malthouse- style top-up tactics that we supposedly left behind. :screwy:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:21 pm
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The Duke wrote:
No, we're 5-10 years behind the comp. We're 3 years behind Essendon**. They have a much stronger, more mentally tough team than us. Now they can use FA AND the draft to build. We'll probably lose another 10 players this year to retirement and de-listing. The chances Doch will come in and help us to 8 wins is almost zilch.

We recruited ASOS and delisted others - now ASOS is gone. Was he part of our long term plan? That wreaks of Malthouse- style top-up tactics that we supposedly left behind. :screwy:


We beat Essendon* this year (and last year also).
Essendon* missed the eight this year. They do not strike me as a juggernaut. If they were so mentally tough, how did we beat them?

We have a lot we can do better. I put no limit on where we are vs Essendon*.

ASOS was only ever a short-term proposition; he helped us beat Sydney last year :)

Note, I do think Brendon Bolton has had a shocking year this year. So did Mark Thompson and Damien Hardwick have terrible years before having some great years. We sacked Brett Ratten way too soon, we got to hold our nerve better than in times past.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3546
Rexy wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Bolton goals
1 of the first 4
4 of the first 11
8 of 22

Fail to meet any along the way
Bye bye

Not unreasonable or over ambitious and should be achievable

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Depending on injuries, that's not unreasonable.


Not at all because we have also fast tracked players this year who may not have had the same air time had we not had injuries. We are 12 months more advanced
8 games minimum even with an 'average' injury level

Injuries cannot be an excuse next year


It's illogical to disregard injuries.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3546
Rexy wrote:
So if Cripps Charlie and Harry do knees then that is no excuse for not meeting those KPI's ...?

Illogical.


Agree to disagree. Time to grow a pair and not hide behind injuries. Have a look at WB injury list in the GF year. Look at Sydney's or Collingwood

Not saying we are in their ballpark, but then 8 games is also way unders for them

We will also have another exciting 18 yo, a PP, a possible, FA, new coaching panel, more footy dept spending etc.

No excuses. 8 games minimum

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Location: Melbourne
Its definitely warranted for everyone to have doubts.

If we are anywhere near as bad next year Bolts will be moved on.

From the outside looking in Neil Craig was a big loss as we seemed without a clue what to do when things went wrong early in the year.

Even with the problems we had I struggle to see how that can justify a 2-20 season and a percentage of 59.

If we need to have a season of 6+ wins and a percentage no lower than 75, ideally over 80.

It’s hard to see Bolts coming back from this year as it has really been a new level of terrible as a season we hadn’t even reached under Pagan or Malthouse. In saying that I am willing to give him a chance in 2019.


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