Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Wed May 14, 2025 8:19 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4748 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224 ... 238  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:30 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
SOS on the Superfooty website saying best available at each pick - given our needs are so many!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:02 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 1344
Dk wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Don't go all 2010 and draft talls out of need. They turned out so well.


100% agree. Need to go best available. Dont want another Mathew Watson situation


Doesn't always work that way. If Hawthorn went best available in 2004 then they wouldn't have Roughead and as a result ran the risk of also missing out on Buddy. Griffin was touted at number 2 but the wise heads at Hawthorn new that if they went Griffin at 2, then Western Bulldogs could most likely have taken Roughead at 3 and if Richmond took Buddy at 4 then Hawthorn would have missed the two best KPP's in that draft.

We need to get a KPP (preferably a forward) with pick 8 otherwise the best ones might all be gone by pick 11.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:44 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:17 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Deutschland
The Kick Inside wrote:
AGRO wrote:
We certainly need to nail at least three of of our top 4 picks this year - as there isn't too much of the farm left to sell off in next years trade period.


I could foresee a move to move Bryce Gibbs.


If so I would've done it this year


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:53 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:17 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Deutschland
BigBlueWave wrote:
Another perspective ... sounds like a Carlton Hater to me.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/10/22/ca ... _discussed


Any article headline that contains the phrase 'spare me' should never be read.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:59 pm 
Offline
Garry Crane

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:09 pm
Posts: 210
dadadadada wrote:
Dk wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Don't go all 2010 and draft talls out of need. They turned out so well.


100% agree. Need to go best available. Dont want another Mathew Watson situation


Doesn't always work that way. If Hawthorn went best available in 2004 then they wouldn't have Roughead and as a result ran the risk of also missing out on Buddy. Griffin was touted at number 2 but the wise heads at Hawthorn new that if they went Griffin at 2, then Western Bulldogs could most likely have taken Roughead at 3 and if Richmond took Buddy at 4 then Hawthorn would have missed the two best KPP's in that draft.

We need to get a KPP (preferably a forward) with pick 8 otherwise the best ones might all be gone by pick 11.


What ur referring to with hawthorn was strategic drafting. Drafting the blokes the want in a specific order so they get the players they want. They didn't draft a prospect that was rated as a mid 20"s just because it fills a need.

Drafting a forward at pick 8 doesn't make him a top 8 prospect and won't make him a gun if really his rated pick 20 for example by everyone else. Curnow and weidman will b gone by 8. I reckon Francis should b who we get there


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:10 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
If we get Francis at 8 AGRO will eat his own shit

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:15 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2784
Location: dudley!!!
ianh wrote:
So how many need to go? Assuming we want to upgrade both Irishmen (unless there are long term injury concerns I'd say we would) and to pick up Son of Son of Serge (lynch mob if they didn't) that locks away 59,60 and 113 even assuming we don't need to pay more to outbid someone for SoSoS. We clearly would want to use the four early picks and keep 1 in reserve you would think for PSD in case someone good is there, and in any event gives us a pick before the rookie draft. So I think the structure is 38 main list plus 6 rookies plus Korchek outside the list. If that is right we need to cut back to 30 on the main list to add 7 ie 1 (Weitering), 8, 11,19, 59 (SoSoS), the 2 Irish rookie upgrades plus a PSD spot - perhaps only to 31 if we don't see any good in the PSD which I doubt. At the moment we have 34, so 4 must go. There are only 4 who do not have contracts past this year - Armfield, Holman, Warnock and White - and so the easy call might be to delist those 4, but of them all except perhaps Warnock have arguments to be kept. Armfield has pace, guts and versatlity and injury aside had a very good season. Holman shows a bit. White is versatile and a goer. Warnock has rare height that might be needed against some opposition, as well as the need to have cover for injury to ruckmen. The alternative is to bite the bullet and pay out one or more contracts. It seems we have salary cap room, but it would be a bit of a waste. If we were looking at this we would prabably look at guys contracted for 1 more season only. That includes Simpson, Buckley, Boekhorst, Rowe, Graham, Everitt, Casboult and Tuohy all of whom I see for various reasons as being safe. That leave 6 candidates - 3 young'uns and 3 more mature. The young'uns are DVR, Foster (both who look well off league level yet but would you think we given time) and Smith who has played seniors in his first year and also you think would be given time. That leaves the senior or more senior campaigners Dick, Tutt and Whiley all of whom have played seniors this year but all of whom I think are well behind others in the pecking order. But would the club be prepared to admit their mistakes with recruiting these guys in the first place?. And perhaps we need there more mature bodies in the short term. Of course if the club was willing to admit recruiting failures they could look at cutting Liam Jones even though he has 2 years left on his contract. Could any of these guys be moved over to the rookie list? I read somewhere a suggestion that this could be done with Jones, if so it could probably be done with any of them - maybe Foster and DVR who are longer term projects and Clam as nominated rookie?

My brain hurts - I wish I didn't rate Armfield and White, then it would be much easier.



great post, well thought out!!

i would keep Armfield, White and Holman, say a very fast goodbye to warnock, and if we need to cut any more players, pay out Tutt and Dick, i am still trying to work out why we recruited them, i think someone lost a bet....

i would love to pay out Jones, or rookie him, but the 2 year contract cost may stand in the way. it is a solid idea though. maybe he will have a break out year and we can trade him to richmond next year

_________________
my last one was rubbish


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:25 am 
Offline
Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 934
dadadadada wrote:
Dk wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Don't go all 2010 and draft talls out of need. They turned out so well.


100% agree. Need to go best available. Dont want another Mathew Watson situation


Doesn't always work that way. If Hawthorn went best available in 2004 then they wouldn't have Roughead and as a result ran the risk of also missing out on Buddy. Griffin was touted at number 2 but the wise heads at Hawthorn new that if they went Griffin at 2, then Western Bulldogs could most likely have taken Roughead at 3 and if Richmond took Buddy at 4 then Hawthorn would have missed the two best KPP's in that draft.

We need to get a KPP (preferably a forward) with pick 8 otherwise the best ones might all be gone by pick 11.


It worked that year for them. Then they took Thorp instead of Selwood in 2006. They aint the infallible recruiting team that many make out. They have had their share of luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:23 am 
Offline
John Nicholls
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 9354
padre wrote:
dadadadada wrote:
Dk wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Don't go all 2010 and draft talls out of need. They turned out so well.


100% agree. Need to go best available. Dont want another Mathew Watson situation


Doesn't always work that way. If Hawthorn went best available in 2004 then they wouldn't have Roughead and as a result ran the risk of also missing out on Buddy. Griffin was touted at number 2 but the wise heads at Hawthorn new that if they went Griffin at 2, then Western Bulldogs could most likely have taken Roughead at 3 and if Richmond took Buddy at 4 then Hawthorn would have missed the two best KPP's in that draft.

We need to get a KPP (preferably a forward) with pick 8 otherwise the best ones might all be gone by pick 11.


It worked that year for them. Then they took Thorp instead of Selwood in 2006. They aint the infallible recruiting team that many make out. They have had their share of luck.


No, no, no, no, no. They did it "The Hard Way (tm)" mmkay? Get with the narrative.

_________________
O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:33 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6935
BigBlueWave wrote:
Another perspective ... sounds like a Carlton Hater to me.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/10/22/ca ... _discussed



despite this guy's annoying style of writing ... if you're being honest there's helluva lot of truth to his list and trading analysis.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:43 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
Braithy wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
Another perspective ... sounds like a Carlton Hater to me.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/10/22/ca ... _discussed



despite this guy's annoying style of writing ... if you're being honest there's helluva lot of truth to his list and trading analysis.

He fails to see the alternative of hanging on to Yarran, Henderson and Menzel. What shape is the list in then? If, and its a big if, we get 3/4 of the draft choices right, it goes a long way to turning the list around. Keeping guys on the list who refuse to play for the team anymore wont work, and that's the clubs own fault for certain. Hopefully there is a cultural change in the style of Hinkley coming into Port Adelaide where there is a absolute minimum standard in the way players train and prepare themselves to at least turn up on match day knowing they did more than the opposition to be ready for the contest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:52 am 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 3992
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
Braithy wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
Another perspective ... sounds like a Carlton Hater to me.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/10/22/ca ... _discussed



despite this guy's annoying style of writing ... if you're being honest there's helluva lot of truth to his list and trading analysis.


Another armchair "List guru"
Gimmee a break.

Dale Thomas is an expensive mistake?
Wow! First I've heard of that opinion!

Bell is a good young player who we'd prefer to keep?
No Kidding!

We have an old list which shouldn't be the case for a wooden spooner needing a rebuild?
OMG why did we not see this before?

Menzel is a young talent?
Well really?

Trade Murphy! Trade Gibbs!
Ok - that seems like a visionary strategy.

He's just a toad with too much time on his hands.

If Menzel lights it up for Adelaide next year then I'll be very disappointed.
If the four GWS players ALL fail to perform then it will be bloody frustrating, but not unexpected.

The most important thing that I will judge SOS on is: Can he actually draft 1 x 200 game player (minimum), and 3 x 150 game players.

The most important thing that I will judge BB on is whether he can create a positive atmosphere and a culture of development and improvement where young players improve and achieve their potential, and begin to win together consistently, instead of crashing out and looking for a fresh start elsewhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:55 am 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 3992
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
Also - the difference with the GWS recruits this year (vs the KJ and Whiley trade) is that SOS traded in 4 x young wild card players from GWS for not much at all.

He didn't trade our only first round pick for a couple of them.

I think people have forgotten that.

The team they came from is irrelevant.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:26 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
We still had a first round pick last year didn't we?

_________________
dane's trolling again


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:39 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
Bluey44 wrote:

The most important thing that I will judge BB on is whether he can create a positive atmosphere and a culture of development and improvement where young players improve and achieve their potential, and begin to win together consistently, instead of crashing out and looking for a fresh start elsewhere.


This is where its at. It will probably be difficult to see next year because I think we will be extraordinarily ordinary. Big challenge for Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas, Walker, Kreuzer and Jamison to show the way for the entire season. Their consistency of effort, on and off the field, has to be an example to the rest of the list. At least they are more likely than Yarran and Henderson to do this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:23 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17959
Braithy wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
Another perspective ... sounds like a Carlton Hater to me.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/10/22/ca ... _discussed



despite this guy's annoying style of writing ... if you're being honest there's helluva lot of truth to his list and trading analysis.


Give me a break. The blokes a @#$%&! flog.

Quote:
Carlton had four very good players aged 24 or under coming into this trade period: Bell, Menzel, Blaine Boekhurst and Patrick Cripps. They traded two of them away.


Boekhorst one of our 4 best players under 24?
Ahead of Sam Doherty? Or Dylan Buckley?

He knows jack shit about our list.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:39 pm 
Offline
formerly King Kenny
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
Braithy wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
Another perspective ... sounds like a Carlton Hater to me.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/10/22/ca ... _discussed



despite this guy's annoying style of writing ... if you're being honest there's helluva lot of truth to his list and trading analysis.


Annoying? He lost me in his first paragraph. What a biased opinion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:10 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4580
Location: Blisstonia.
Then in the comments "I would have shipped Gibbs to Gold Coast or Adelaide for a 1st rounder, and a player".

Rule 1.1 of trade week analysis is don't assume that a) what you are suggesting might not have happened or b) what you are suggesting would have been agreed to by another side.

Secondly, opinion is fine but back it up with more than "players who couldn't get a regular game" at other clubs.

Writer would find that the majority of the players traded this year were playing 2nds football at some stage, including two we traded out in Yarran and Menzel.

I would have been interested to hear his views on the incoming players, but my guess is he has no idea.

Google stats. Form opinion. Assume it as fact.

_________________
"They're [REDACTED]'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:20 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Bluey44 wrote:
Also - the difference with the GWS recruits this year (vs the KJ and Whiley trade) is that SOS traded in 4 x young wild card players from GWS for not much at all.

He didn't trade our only first round pick for a couple of them.

I think people have forgotten that.

The team they came from is irrelevant.

The 4 gws players were brought in and the price was menzel. Hardly "not much at all" - especially when there was an alternate way to bringing them in that wouldn't sacrifice menzel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:27 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4580
Location: Blisstonia.
Furthermore he claims we should be worried that the platter only cost a single pick, yet he'd be the first to scream if we for example overpaid by giving away multiple picks for the same return.

Classic way to twist an argument in your favour. Even if we have been perceived to get a bargain, it must only be because there is a catch.

On the flip side along the same tact, and for the sake of consistency, he could also claim that therefore Adelaide fans should be worried that they picked up Menzel for such a low pick but that wouldn't suit his argument.

You can't have it both ways.

_________________
"They're [REDACTED]'


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4748 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224 ... 238  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DCBlue, windy and 95 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group