TalkingCarlton :: View topic - List Management 2019

keogh wrote:

Question to all of you
Why are we so shit?

I think our player leadership has been poor for a long time up until Crippa took over.

He and Doc can’t change the culture overnight but I think with Russell they will transform the soft culture into a culture we’ll be proud of.

My hope is that the older players are moved on ASAP to fast track the change.

Rexy wrote:

keogh wrote:

Question to all of you
Why are we so shit?

If the club wants the change fast-tracked, they call Clarkson.

I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks.

God that's depressing reading

Question to all of you
Why are we so shit?

Rexy wrote:

I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks.

I understand - but a clubs fitness guru can only take the boys so far. I personally don't think they'll even approach Clarkson given his contract, but there is definitely something there to work with for a coach - but if we continue down this road much longer, we'll be perennial cellar dwellers.

There is a 30th anniversary coming up this weekend. If the Bombres blow us out of the water, some people inside the club will be suggesting we reenact it.

http://www.blueseum.org/Round+10%2C+1989

Rexy wrote:

I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks.

DocSherrin III wrote:

Rexy wrote:

I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks.

Awesome. Bring back Jezza. :grin:

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

We're shit because we lost all semblance of personality and attitude we had after the draft sanctions. We became a club that sought to appease the AFL, and in doing so lost all sense of self. It's a piss-weak attitude that permeates all areas of the club. We'd rather be ordinary and go unnoticed than dare step out of line. Pathetic.

keogh wrote:

Question to all of you
Why are we so shit?

The strategy of cutting the list back so hard was risky. It had never been proven to work in the free agency era.
It worked in the 2000's. Even a little bit for us in the Ratts years. But not since free agency came in.

Rexy wrote:

I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks.

In the meantime, being suitably depressed, I'm off to work. :cry:

Doc for what it's worth, I rate your observations. So, just for the hell of it, let's say you're in charge.
What would you do to right the ship ? What changes would you make now ?

In the meantime, being suitably depressed, I'm off to work. :cry:

murraycray wrote:

It's all about legacy for the Pres and he's only got until the end of 2022 before he has to move aside. He's desperate to leave a legacy. I can't understate that enough. But he's also not a bad listener and there are a couple of young men at the club (the co-captains) whom I'm told have made it known in no uncertain terms that they will be livid if the senior coach is moved on during the season.

I've a gut feel that unless we're hemorrhaging 10-goal losses every week, the coach will see out the year. But if I'm in charge, I want to make some changes now - because whatever this is, it's not working.

So - I'd make some changes to the coaching structure and Bolton doesn't get a say in this.

David Teague (currently forwards coach - moving to Nthn Blues assistant under Josh Fraser)
Sam Docherty (new forwards coach)

John Barker (current stoppages coach - moving to defenders coach with Shane Watson)
Dale Amos (current defence coach - moving to joint midfield/stoppages coach)

Brent Stanton (current Nthn Blues development midfield coach - moving to assistant midfield/stoppages under Amos)
Cameron Bruce (current midfield coach - moving to Nthn Blues assistant under Josh Fraser)

Minor changes to contracts. But they are paid the same coin as what they're currently on and if they (Teague and Bruce) have a problem, they can leave. Docherty is an All-Australian defender. He would understand modern day forwards better than most. He is a good communicator and is respected. Same goes for Brent Stanton.

It might not work - but sacking the coach mid-year might not work either.

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Wed May 29, 2019 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
Rexy wrote: keogh wrote: Question to all of you Why are we so shit? I think our player leadership has been poor for a long time up until Crippa took over. He and Doc can’t change the culture overnight but I think with Russell they will transform the soft culture into a culture we’ll be proud of. My hope is that the older players are moved on ASAP to fast track the change. If the club wants the change fast-tracked, they call Clarkson.

Author:	verbs [ Wed May 29, 2019 9:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
It's a terrible list, especially considering Yarran would only be 29 this year. 2008 Trade Robert Warnock 67 games Draft Chris Yarran 119 games Mitch Robinson 100 games Rhys O'keeffe 3 games Caleb Tiller 2009 Trade Brock McLean 63 games Lachlan Henderson 102 games Draft Kane Lucas 42 games Marcus Davies 17 games Rohan Kerr 2010 Trade Andrew Collins 11 games Jeremy Laidler 24 games Draft Matthew Watson 23 games Patrick McCarthy 1 game Luke Mitchell 1 game Andrew McInnes 17 games Nicholas Duigan 43 games 2011 Draft Josh Bootsma 14 games Sam Rowe 99 games Dylan Buckley 39 games 2012 Draft Troy Menzel 40 games Tom Temay Nick Graham 48 games 2013 Free Agent Dale Thomas 91 games* Trade Sam Docherty 79 games* Andrejs Everitt 52 games Draft Patrick Cripps 91 games* Cameron Giles Nick Holman 9 games 2014 Free Agent Matthew Dick 6 games Trade Kristian Jaksch 7 games Mark Whiley 9 games Liam Jones 53 games* Draft Blaine Boekhorst 25 games Dillon Viojo-Rainbow Clem Smith 7 games Jayden Foster

Author:	CK95 [ Wed May 29, 2019 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	List Management 2019
God that's depressing reading

Author:	Rexy [ Wed May 29, 2019 9:43 am ]
Post subject:	List Management 2019
DocSherrin III wrote: Rexy wrote: keogh wrote: Question to all of you Why are we so shit? I think our player leadership has been poor for a long time up until Crippa took over. He and Doc can’t change the culture overnight but I think with Russell they will transform the soft culture into a culture we’ll be proud of. My hope is that the older players are moved on ASAP to fast track the change. If the club wants the change fast-tracked, they call Clarkson. I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks.

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Wed May 29, 2019 10:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
Rexy wrote: I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks. I understand - but a clubs fitness guru can only take the boys so far. I personally don't think they'll even approach Clarkson given his contract, but there is definitely something there to work with for a coach - but if we continue down this road much longer, we'll be perennial cellar dwellers. There is a 30th anniversary coming up this weekend. If the Bombres blow us out of the water, some people inside the club will be suggesting we reenact it. http://www.blueseum.org/Round+10%2C+1989

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

List Management 2019 http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36424	Page 23 of 51

Author:	Wojee [ Wed May 29, 2019 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
CK95 wrote: God that's depressing reading The worst angsty teenage poem I've ever read.

Author:	club29 [ Wed May 29, 2019 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
keogh wrote: Question to all of you Why are we so shit? The strategy of cutting the list back so hard was risky. It had never been proven to work in the free agency era. It worked in the 2000's. Even a little bit for us in the Ratts years. But not since free agency came in. It still may pay off but it will take a lot longer than expected and will require players to stick around through dark periods. As a club we have taken down a lot of good people. It is going to be hard to attract anyone to come, from players to coaches to admin. Most football people would be warned about stepping foot inside our club.

Author:	MPH78 [ Wed May 29, 2019 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
DocSherrin III wrote: Rexy wrote: I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks. I understand - but a clubs fitness guru can only take the boys so far. I personally don't think they'll even approach Clarkson given his contract, but there is definitely something there to work with for a coach - but if we continue down this road much longer, we'll be perennial cellar dwellers. There is a 30th anniversary coming up this weekend. If the Bombres blow us out of the water, some people inside the club will be suggesting we reenact it. http://www.blueseum.org/Round+10%2C+1989 My fear exactly Doc. Have stated so previously. We can't get this wrong. Huge decisions to be made by the club. Our ongoing viability is at stake. Otherwise we'll continue to be largely irrelevant and insignificant.

Author:	moshe25 [ Wed May 29, 2019 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
DocSherrin III wrote: Rexy wrote: I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks. I understand - but a clubs fitness guru can only take the boys so far. I personally don't think they'll even approach Clarkson given his contract, but there is definitely something there to work with for a coach - but if we continue down this road much longer, we'll be perennial cellar dwellers. There is a 30th anniversary coming up this weekend. If the Bombres blow us out of the water, some people inside the club will be suggesting we reenact it. http://www.blueseum.org/Round+10%2C+1989 Awesome. Bring back Jezza. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Wed May 29, 2019 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
moshe25 wrote: DocSherrin III wrote: Rexy wrote: I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks. I understand - but a clubs fitness guru can only take the boys so far. I personally don't think they'll even approach Clarkson given his contract, but there is definitely something there to work with for a coach - but if we continue down this road much longer, we'll be perennial cellar dwellers. There is a 30th anniversary coming up this weekend. If the Bombres blow us out of the water, some people inside the club will be suggesting we reenact it. http://www.blueseum.org/Round+10%2C+1989 Awesome. Bring back Jezza. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk I took that as Walls was going to be sacked as Senior mentor and Jezza's was going to replace him Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Author:	Franc de Borges [ Wed May 29, 2019 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
We're shit because we lost all semblance of personality and attitude we had after the draft sanctions. We became a club that sought to appease the AFL, and in doing so lost all sense of self. It's a piss-weak attitude that permeates all areas of the club. We'd rather be ordinary and go unnoticed than dare step out of line. Pathetic.

Author:	windy [ Wed May 29, 2019 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
Franc de Borges wrote: We're shit because we lost all semblance of personality and attitude we had after the draft sanctions. We became a club that sought to appease the AFL, and in doing so lost all sense of self. It's a piss-weak attitude that permeates all areas of the club. We'd rather be ordinary and go unnoticed than dare step out of line. Pathetic. I agree. The sanction against Thomas is symptomatic of the Club's bend over attitude. Grow a pair Carlton.

Author:	jamespul65 [ Wed May 29, 2019 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
we are shit because drafting has been pathetic goes back to wayne hughes and even today i question sos with his choices of slow /weak players .

Author:	CK95 [ Wed May 29, 2019 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
We've had 4 coaches in a row who have been substandard, for various reasons It’s the only thing everyone on our list has known, from the youngsters to Simmo.

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Author:	Bookie [ Wed May 29, 2019 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
club29 wrote: keogh wrote: Question to all of you Why are we so shit? The strategy of cutting the list back so hard was risky. It had never been proven to work in the free agency era. It worked in the 2000's. Even a little bit for us in the Ratts years. But not since free agency came in. Exactly! e.g. Destination Hawthorn. We are the exception going with an all kids programme. The obvious problem is kids need older bodies and minds, to protect and teach, if not they fail, and will likely leave for little or no compensation. The lessons learnt early in your career will shape it, it's funny seeing Bryce Gibbs dropped again at Adelaide for being a one way runner, who would have thought!, amazing to see him and Selwood as contemporaries, and the different career paths. Murphy and Pendelbury too. When we go off the kids, we chose Tom Bugg, not say a Mick Barlow, we chose McGovern not a less 'flighly' solid pro to pay circa $700k a season to. Won't go into all the 'analytics software' choices and GWS mistakes given a second chance, but not many winners or at worst solid professional role models in that lot. All clubs make mistakes, recently we just make more, a lot more. Brad Lloyd's recent football department review, must be filed under fantasy only a few months on.

Author:	murraycray [ Thu May 30, 2019 8:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
DocSherrin III wrote: Rexy wrote: I’d rather Andrew Russell thanks. I understand - but a clubs fitness guru can only take the boys so far. I personally don't think they'll even approach Clarkson given his contract, but there is definitely something there to work with for a coach - but if we continue down this road much longer, we'll be perennial cellar dwellers. There is a 30th anniversary coming up this weekend. If the Bombres blow us out of the water, some people inside the club will be suggesting we reenact it. http://www.blueseum.org/Round+10%2C+1989 Doc for what it's worth, I rate your observations. So, just for the hell of it, let's say you're in charge. What would you do to right the ship ? What changes would you make now ? In the meantime, being suitably depressed, I'm off to work.

Author:	verbs [ Thu May 30, 2019 8:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
murraycray wrote: In the meantime, being suitably depressed, I'm off to work. Not making light of your situation. Yesterday I was thinking this year and last year has had to have a negative impact on my health. Week after week of stress, disappointment and depression due to our on field performance. People may well say just stop following the footy, but for many of us this has been something we have done all our lives. Hell, even poor performing teams have more than three wins in an eighteen month period. FFS we beat the Bulldogs and twitter was flooded with videos of people celebrating. The players, the coaches, the media, they all make a living out of this. We on the other hand live it every day.

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Thu May 30, 2019 9:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
murraycray wrote: Doc for what it's worth, I rate your observations. So, just for the hell of it, let's say you're in charge. What would you do to right the ship ? What changes would you make now ? In the meantime, being suitably depressed, I'm off to work. It's all about legacy for the Pres and he's only got until the end of 2022 before he has to move aside. He's desperate to leave a legacy. I can't understate that enough. But he's also not a bad listener and there are a couple of young men at the club (the co-captains) whom I'm told have made it known in no uncertain terms that they will be livid if the senior coach is moved on during the season. I've a gut feel that unless we're hemorrhaging 10-goal losses every week, the coach will see out the year. But if I'm in charge, I want to make some changes now - because whatever this is, it's not working. So - I'd make some changes to the coaching structure and Bolton doesn't get a say in this. David Teague (currently forwards coach - moving to Nthn Blues assistant under Josh Fraser) Sam Docherty (new forwards coach) John Barker (current stoppages coach - moving to defenders coach with Shane Watson) Dale Amos (current defence coach - moving to joint midfield/stoppages coach) Brent Stanton (current Nthn Blues development midfield coach - moving to assistant midfield/stoppages under Amos) Cameron Bruce (current midfield coach - moving to Nthn Blues assistant under Josh Fraser) Minor changes to contracts. But they are paid the same coin as what they're currently on and if they (Teague and Bruce) have a problem, they can leave. Docherty is an All-Australian defender. He would understand modern day forwards better than most. He is a good communicator and is respected. Same goes for Brent Stanton. It might not work - but sacking the coach mid-year might not work either.

Author:	ferdinand [ Thu May 30, 2019 10:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
So we've turned over 52 players in 4 years. Does anyone feel like tweeting that Swamp Thing dude who comes up with the interesting stats and finding out if this is some kind of record?

Author:	aboynamedsue [ Thu May 30, 2019 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2019
DocSherrin III wrote: murraycray wrote: Doc for what it's worth, I rate your observations. So, just for the hell of it, let's say you're in charge. What would you do to right the ship ? What changes would you make now ? In the meantime, being suitably depressed, I'm off to work. It's all about legacy for the Pres and he's only got until the end of 2022 before he has to move aside. He's desperate to leave a legacy. I can't understate that enough. But he's also not a bad listener and there are a couple of young men at the club (the co-captains) whom I'm told have made it known in no uncertain terms that they will be livid if the senior coach is moved on during the season. I've a gut feel that unless we're hemorrhaging 10-goal losses every week, the coach will see out the year. But if I'm in charge, I want to make some changes now - because whatever this is, it's not working. So - I'd make some changes to the coaching structure and Bolton doesn't get a say in this. David Teague (currently forwards coach - moving to Nthn Blues assistant under Josh Fraser) Sam Docherty (new forwards coach) John Barker (current stoppages coach - moving to defenders coach with Shane Watson) Dale Amos (current defence coach - moving to joint midfield/stoppages coach) Brent Stanton (current Nthn Blues development midfield coach - moving to assistant midfield/stoppages under Amos) Cameron Bruce (current midfield coach - moving to Nthn Blues assistant under Josh Fraser) Minor changes to contracts. But they are paid the same coin as what they're currently on and if they (Teague and Bruce) have a problem, they can leave. Docherty is an All-Australian defender. He would understand modern day forwards better than most. He is a good communicator and is respected. Same goes for Brent Stanton. It might not work - but sacking the coach mid-year might not work either. I wouldn’t move Amos again. He gets results as defensive coach. But I agree with the overall idea of giving Docherty & Stanton more prominent roles in favour of Bruce & Teague.