Brendon Bolton - Carlton coach 2015-2019

Sidefx · **Joined:** Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm **Posts:** 6615

Blue Vain wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

We've been over this 100 times. He's not saying winning isn't important. What he's saying is we have to measure ourselves by effort and commitment.
As an example, IMHO, our effort against Richmond in Round 1 was far more commendable that our win against a piss poor Gold Coast last week. The effort was greater and the consistency of effort was better.
Bolton expects the players to give 100% effort and 100% commitment. If we can obtain that on a consistent basis, the results will look after themselves.
Yes it's coach-speak but we have to focus on the process and not outcome.

If you focus on the process and not the outcome because the process will lead to the desired outcome - then we can say that the players either do not get the process or the process is all wrong or the players are not trying

What the game highlighted to me was the difference in class. I went yesterday and focussed on our structures and how GWS countered them.
As I mentioned on this board last night, they had probably 6 midfielders who would be better than our second best midfielder. They are better skilled and significantly better athletically. Coniglio and Whitfield cant get a start in the midfield group yet they'd easily be our second best if not best.
If we spoilt the ball, they athletically beat us to the fall of the ball. If they won the ball, several of our kids like O'Brien were brushed off like flies. The players were trying. The coaches were playing one on one footy which is exactly what the supporters have been calling for.
They just embarrassed us with the difference in class.

We are a developing team that is currently bottom 6 on the ladder at best with our full complement of players. With the players we have out, we're easily bottom 2 and quite a distance back.

As for Bolton knows, he knows he will be judged by wins and losses. But he doesn't want that to be the players focus.
They need small wins based on the things they can control. Effort, commitment to the contest, tackling etc. The rest is totally out of their control.

Great post but we know it will fall on deaf ears to some. :banghead:

dlb99 · **Joined:** Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:21 pm **Posts:** 202

Bolton has had a shocking year in my opinion, flip-flopping game plans, busted zones etc etc.

The Neil Craig departure has had an effect, a negative one. My recollection is that Hardwick was also struggling at around the same time in his coaching tenure at Richmond.

To me Bolton stays, but needs to get better next year.

What I can't cop anymore is our abysmal fitness and medical regime. Cain Liddle needs to carry out a review in this department, we are a million miles away in regards to health, injuries and fitness.

Silvagni (list) and Bolton (coach) are being killed by our fitness and medical department.

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:00 pm

Sidefx wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

We've been over this 100 times. He's not saying winning isn't important. What he's saying is we have to measure ourselves by effort and commitment.
As an example, IMHO, our effort against Richmond in Round 1 was far more commendable that our win against a piss poor Gold Coast last week. The effort was greater and the consistency of effort was better.
Bolton expects the players to give 100% effort and 100% commitment. If we can obtain that on a consistent basis, the results will look after themselves.
Yes it's coach-speak but we have to focus on the process and not outcome.

If you focus on the process and not the outcome because the process will lead to the desired outcome - then we can say that the players either do not get the process or the process is all wrong or the players are not trying

What the game highlighted to me was the difference in class. I went yesterday and focussed on our structures and how GWS countered them.
As I mentioned on this board last night, they had probably 6 midfielders who would be better than our second best midfielder. They are better skilled and significantly better athletically. Coniglio and Whitfield cant get a start in the midfield group yet they'd easily be our second best if not best.
If we spoilt the ball, they athletically beat us to the fall of the ball. If they won the ball, several of our kids like O'Brien were brushed off like flies. The players were trying. The coaches were playing one on one footy which is exactly what the supporters have been calling for.
They just embarrassed us with the difference in class.

We are a developing team that is currently bottom 6 on the ladder at best with our full complement of players. With the players we have out, we're easily bottom 2 and quite a distance back.

As for Bolton knows, he knows he will be judged by wins and losses. But he doesn't want that to be the players focus.
They need small wins based on the things they can control. Effort, commitment to the contest, tackling etc. The rest is totally out of their control.

Great post but we know it will fall on deaf ears to some. :banghead:

BV post is fine if you are developing a junior football side in an under age competition but this side is playing in the premier sporting competition in Australia and has some of the highest paid players and officials of any sporting organization in the country .
People pay hundreds and thousands of dollars to watch the elite of elite perform not to watch a bunch of players learning the game
What Carlton has produced this year is below what could be determined as an acceptable standard for a professional organization

camel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:04 pm

Pre-2017 Hardwick's coaching record was reasonably mediocre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Ha ... 010_season

bosman · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:12 pm

camelboy wrote:

Pre-2017 Hardwick's coaching record was reasonably mediocre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Ha ... 010_season

Essendon* overlooked Dimma and went for Matthew Knights - hahahahahaha.

The Duke · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:27 pm

Blue Vain wrote:

We've been over this 100 times. He's not saying winning isn't important. What he's saying is we have to measure ourselves by effort and commitment.
As an example, IMHO, our effort against Richmond in Round 1 was far more commendable that our win against a piss poor Gold Coast last week. The effort was greater and the consistency of effort was better.
Bolton expects the players to give 100% effort and 100% commitment. If we can obtain that on a consistent basis, the results will look after themselves.
Yes it's coach-speak but we have to focus on the process and not outcome.

Then by those standards, he and the team is failing. More often than not, effort and commitment has been pathetic - which is exactly what most of us are referring to.

It doesn't take a genius to spot it either. Everyone can see how little a @#$%&! is given by the group as a whole.

The Duke · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:32 pm

camelboy wrote:

Pre-2017 Hardwick's coaching record was reasonably mediocre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Ha ... 010_season

Nowhere near as bad as Bolton statistically.

His worst year was 8 wins. https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... rdwick--77

That's 1 better than Bolton's best year, which was also his 1st.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18035

The Duke wrote:

It doesn't take a genius to spot it either. Everyone can see how little a @#$%&! is given by the group as a whole.

There's plenty of players who are busting a gut for little reward. Come back with something with a bit of substance.
Baseless generalising doesn't nothing for your argument.

camel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:44 pm

The Duke wrote:

camelboy wrote:

Pre-2017 Hardwick's coaching record was reasonably mediocre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Ha ... 010_season

Nowhere near as bad as Bolton statistically.

His worst year was 8 wins. https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... rdwick--77

That's 1 better than Bolton's best year, which was also his 1st.

Hardwick must be amazing, the Richmond list was waaaaay worse than ours too.

/sarcasm

Rexy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am **Posts:** 28227

Blue Vain wrote:

The Duke wrote:

It doesn't take a genius to spot it either. Everyone can see how little a @#$%&! is given by the group as a whole.

There's plenty of players who are busting a gut for little reward. Come back with something with a bit of substance.
Baseless generalising doesn't nothing for your argument.

The half-arsed effort in the 1st qtr was embarrassing.

Sidefx · **Joined:** Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm **Posts:** 6615

Sydney Blue wrote:

BV post is fine if you are developing a junior football side in an under age competition but this side is playing in the premier sporting competition in Australia and has some of the highest paid players and officials of any sporting organization in the country .
People pay hundreds and thousands of dollars to watch the elite of elite perform not to watch a bunch of players learning the game
What Carlton has produced this year is below what could be determined as an acceptable standard for a professional organization

Junior football side, what rubbish and you know it. I nearly stopped reading then, however I didn't and you are correct we have produced an unacceptable standard of football to us supporters and the rest of the country. But you must have an ounce of logic in you, to understand that we have a shallow young team that has been decimated by injuries to key players for the club, producing what we have been seeing.

And BV is 100% correct in saying that they have about 6 midfielders that are better then our 2nd best midfielder (not to mention all the other players that are better then ours), this is why we have been saying we need mids. Everyone knows we need mids, we need to draft more mids, trade in more mids if we want to get anywhere or even play respectable football. Is it sinking in yet? No coach can fix our position without players and uninjured ones at that. Even more reason the focus has to be on development and processes of the talent we have.

Let me ask you something then, who on our team would make it in the starting 22 for GWS?

dannyboy · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:35 pm

but Bolts isn't trying

sorry Cripps isn't trying

sorry Marchbank isn't trying

sorry the Curnows are not trying

sorry McKay is not trying

sorry Lobbe is not trying...

etc...etc....etc....(very trying I know)

seriously the only ones not trying are the moaners who shut the @#$%&! up when we win and then find all the little bits of fallen sky when we lose.

here's a tip

give me a midfield Bolts could field that could match up with GWS's midfield (remember ours had Graham, Kennedy (who was poor in the first and last) 2 first years, a second year and Cripps...

so without that we can't get the ball

and without the ball we can't score

now add our wonderful shittiness at hitting targets (because we have some tryers who just are not up to it) and when we do get it we give it back

now add that when we do not give it back but mark it, we then miss sitters....

none of this is Bolts coaching, its just where we are at and all the moaning and ducking from bit of falling sky will not change that, only time will, time and going to the drafts (and going after top end talent from other clubs?)

it's the list

and the list is the list because we are rebuilding and we have built choosing the kids not older types first up...

we have injuries....

have I mentioned we need midfielders?????

oh and we did travel (and stayed in Brisbane so we came back later - my guess is because the young kids were buggered and needed a bit of r&r in the surf)

have I ever mentioned we need more midfielders - and some with speed.

And even then we will have to let them develop...sorry its that or drugs...maybe we should take the drugs while we wait?

Crippa · **Joined:** Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm **Posts:** 829

Sydney Blue wrote:

Sidefx wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

We've been over this 100 times. He's not saying winning isn't important. What he's saying is we have to measure ourselves by effort and commitment.
As an example, IMHO, our effort against Richmond in Round 1 was far more commendable that our win against a piss poor Gold Coast last week. The effort was greater and the consistency of effort was better.
Bolton expects the players to give 100% effort and 100% commitment. If we can obtain that on a consistent basis, the results will look after themselves.
Yes it's coach-speak but we have to focus on the process and not outcome.

If you focus on the process and not the outcome because the process will lead to the desired outcome - then we can say that the players either do not get the process or the process is all wrong or the players are not trying

What the game highlighted to me was the difference in class. I went yesterday and focussed on our structures and how GWS countered them.
As I mentioned on this board last night, they had probably 6 midfielders who would be better than our second best midfielder. They are better skilled and significantly better athletically. Coniglio and Whitfield cant get a start in the midfield group yet they'd easily be our second best if not best.
If we spoilt the ball, they athletically beat us to the fall of the ball. If they won the ball, several of our kids like O'Brien were brushed off like flies. The players were trying. The coaches were playing one on one footy which is exactly what the supporters have been calling for.
They just embarrassed us with the difference in class.

We are a developing team that is currently bottom 6 on the ladder at best with our full complement of players. With the players we have out, we're easily bottom 2 and quite a distance back.

As for Bolton knows, he knows he will be judged by wins and losses. But he doesn't want that to be the players focus.
They need small wins based on the things they can control. Effort, commitment to the contest, tackling etc. The rest is totally out of their control.

Great post but we know it will fall on deaf ears to some. :banghead:

BV post is fine if you are developing a junior football side in an under age competition but this side is playing in the premier sporting competition in Australia and has some of the highest paid players and officials of any sporting organization in the country .
People pay hundreds and thousands of dollars to watch the elite of elite perform not to watch a bunch of players learning the game
What Carlton has produced this year is below what could be determined as an acceptable standard for a professional organization

Just as predicted Sidefx.
BV deserves a medal for preserving to respond to SB. Great post BV :thumbsup:

Ill give the mods a break and not close with anything too derogatory towards SB but I still don't understand why he/she is so unrelenting to see or acknowledge anything positive.

Juddy&theKruezers · **Joined:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm **Posts:** 4426

dannyboy wrote:

but Bolts isn't trying

sorry Cripps isn't trying

sorry Marchbank isn't trying

sorry the Curnows are not trying

sorry McKay is not trying

sorry Lobbe is not trying...

etc...etc....etc....(very trying I know)

seriously the only ones not trying are the moaners who shut the @#$%&! up when we win and then find all the little bits of fallen sky when we lose.

here's a tip

give me a midfield Bolts could field that could match up with GWS's midfield (remember ours had Graham, Kennedy (who was poor in the first and last) 2 first years, a second year and Cripps...

so without that we can't get the ball

and without the ball we can't score

now add our wonderful shittiness at hitting targets (because we have some tryers who just are not up to it) and when we do get it we give it back

now add that when we do not give it back but mark it, we then miss sitters....

none of this is Bolts coaching, its just where we are at and all the moaning and ducking from bit of falling sky will not change that, only time will, time and going to the drafts (and going after top end talent from other clubs?)

it's the list

and the list is the list because we are rebuilding and we have build the kids not older types first up...

we have injuries....

have I mentioned we need midfielders?????

oh and we did travel (and stayed in Brisbane so we came back later - my guess is because the young kids were buggered and needed a bit of r&r in the surf)

have I ever mentioned we need more midfielders - and some with speed.

And even then we will have to let them develop...sorry its that or drugs...maybe we should take the drugs while we wait?

Correct ... we have one mid ... Crippa ...

toddkurnski · **Joined:** Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am **Posts:** 3581

Draft midfielders and bring on 2019.
Fix our medical room

We started the list again at ground zero. We sold everything over 26 that had value.

I think we have a very talented list and another draft will only add more.

If we are half way through 2020 and still struggling then Bolts will get replaced.

What I would like to see from Bolts is our transition from half back to the wing have some system. Having Docherty out gave others an opportunity to fill that hole. Then all the others also got injured, including Williamson who could have learnt a lot.

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:09 pm

Crippa wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

Sidefx wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

[quote="Blue Vain"]We've been over this 100 times. He's not saying winning isn't important. What he's saying is we have to measure ourselves by effort and commitment.
As an example, IMHO, our effort against Richmond in Round 1 was far more commendable that our win against a piss poor Gold Coast last week. The effort was greater and the consistency of effort was better.
Bolton expects the players to give 100% effort and 100% commitment. If we can obtain that on a consistent basis, the results will look after themselves.
Yes it's coach-speak but we have to focus on the process and not outcome.

If you focus on the process and not the outcome because the process will lead to the desired outcome - then we can say that the players either do not get the process or the process is all wrong or the players are not trying

What the game highlighted to me was the difference in class. I went yesterday and focussed on our structures and how GWS countered them.
As I mentioned on this board last night, they had probably 6 midfielders who would be better than our second best midfielder. They are better skilled and significantly better athletically. Coniglio and Whitfield cant get a start in the midfield group yet they'd easily be our second best if not best.
If we spoilt the ball, they athletically beat us to the fall of the ball. If they won the ball, several of our kids like O'Brien were brushed off like flies. The players were trying. The coaches were playing one on one footy which is exactly what the supporters have been calling for.
They just embarrassed us with the difference in class.

We are a developing team that is currently bottom 6 on the ladder at best with our full complement of players. With the players we have out, we're easily bottom 2 and quite a distance back.

As for Bolton knows, he knows he will be judged by wins and losses. But he doesn't want that to be the players focus.
They need small wins based on the things they can control. Effort, commitment to the contest, tackling etc. The rest is totally out of their control.

Great post but we know it will fall on deaf ears to some. :banghead:

BV post is fine if you are developing a junior football side in an under age competition but this side is playing in the premier sporting competition in Australia and has some of the highest paid players and officials of any sporting organization in the country .
People pay hundreds and thousands of dollars to watch the elite of elite perform not to watch a bunch of players learning the game
What Carlton has produced this year is below what could be determined as an acceptable standard for a professional organization

Just as predicted Sidefx.
BV deserves a medal for preserving to respond to SB. Great post BV :thumbsup:

Ill give the mods a break and not close with anything too derogatory towards SB but I still don't understand why he/she is so unrelenting to see or acknowledge anything positive.[/quote]It because you only choose to read when I am being negative.
I have posted plenty of positive in the past.
But 2 wins and 105 point belting there are no positives.
The season is a total fukcup.
Lord help us if they introduce a 18 meter goal square because if we are given a free at the top of the square there will be lucky if there are 2 players who will kick it.

I worry about the mental scarring that is occurring to this playing group.

We had 5 years of Pagan telling them they were shit then we sacked him and gave Ratts the license to tank.
Ratts gets them winning but apparently didn't have what it takes to take them the next step.
So we hire Malthouse who spends 3 years telling them that they are shite.
Until MLG announced a rebuild and didn't tell Malthouse.
Barker put in with license to tank.
Bolton appointed with license to clear out and every week he tells us we don't worry about winning.
Then we get SOS with his Malcolm Fraser moment stating that rebuilding is not meant to be easy.
MLG then goes along with this spinning the line that this is a plan.
It is a great big cluster @#$%&!.
Clear the list of a certain age profile then use that as an excuse as to why you are so shite.
The once great club is now the laughing stock of competition.
Sure we have 3 or 4 youngsters showing promise and our 1 man mountain might win a brownlow.
But please don't expect me to be positive

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Taff · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:17 pm

toddkurnski wrote:

Draft midfielders and bring on 2019.
Fix our medical room

We started the list again at ground zero. We sold everything over 26 that had value.

I think we have a very talented list and another draft will only add more.

If we are half way through 2020 and still struggling then Bolts will get replaced.

What I would like to see from Bolts is our transition from half back to the wing have some system. Having Docherty out gave others an opportunity to fill that hole. Then all the others also got injured, including Williamson who could have learnt a lot.

Trouble is, as they come out with the ball, their kicking is so poor that the ball is given straight back to the opposition.

toddkurnski · **Joined:** Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am **Posts:** 3581

Taff wrote:

toddkurnski wrote:

Draft midfielders and bring on 2019.
Fix our medical room

We started the list again at ground zero. We sold everything over 26 that had value.

I think we have a very talented list and another draft will only add more.

If we are half way through 2020 and still struggling then Bolts will get replaced.

What I would like to see from Bolts is our transition from half back to the wing have some system. Having Docherty out gave others an opportunity to fill that hole. Then all the others also got injured, including Williamson who could have learnt a lot.

Trouble is, as they come out with the ball, their kicking is so poor that the ball is given straight back to the opposition.

Yes, some of it butchering the ball. But it seems that we look up the field and players
1. Have not timed their lead
2. Have filled someone else’s space
3. Not moving at all

Then we bomb it and fail to put it to advantage or get numbers around the contest.

That’s an ongoing issue that, even allowing for injuries changing our week to week line up and meaning we lack consistency and cohesion, there should be a plan understood by all players including those coming up from the VFL.

Blue Sombrero · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:07 am

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

I can't believe we didn't play man on man in the last with a spare player rotating through the middle.
Watching them play kick to kick with our mob standing five metres away in a zone was mind-boggling.
At one stage in our F50 we were one against four. That means we had four spare players somewhere.

95% of the game we played man on man. To the point we played a mostly 7 or 8 man forward line to pick up their spares. How did that work for us? We were massively outclassed. How we set up had very little to do with it.

The Duke wrote:

I feel super happy for people who are okay with where we're at right now, but at the same time I feel sorry for them. This isn't good - not by any measure.

How wonderful for you. Do you really think anyone here gives a @#$%&! about how you feel about them?

I understand they played one extra on the forward line and couldn't get the ball down there. We needed the extra in the midfield where the game starts after a score.
Actually we needed about four extra there.
Unfortunately, I can only comment on what I see on the TV and of course I bow to those with the wider view.

EDIT: Nice post up there, Bondi. I (almost) always like your stuff.

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7253

Blue Vain wrote:

They need small wins based on the things they can control. Effort, commitment to the contest, tackling etc. The rest is totally out of their control.

i agree.

and this season as a whole, has been an abysmal failure with effort, commitment and tackling when compared to the last two seasons. based on that measuring stick, bolton has taken a considerable step backwards from last year, yeah?

Brendon Bolton - Carlton coach 2015-2019

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