R12: Carlton v Hawthorn (pre-match / teams p16)

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2862

There was an interesting interview with one of the Sydney mids last week, I think it was Kieren Jack. He said if you're not prepared to run hard both ways then you won't get a game at Sydney. He said it with absolute resolve; there was no room for compromise on that.

If we want to be a genuine contender, this is what we need to learn. To run both ways. To pick ourselves up when we have no energy left to do so. To gut run, and gut run, and gut run. To sacrifice ourselves for our team mates. To do the team thing, even when we don't agree with it.

We are a long way from that, individually and as a team. The leadership group was hard on Waite, and look what's happened since. Malthouse has been hard on Yarran, let's hope Yarran comes back better than ever. Talk of getting rid of Yarran is ridiculous; the challenge for Yarran, the coaches and the leadership group is to add what's missing to his game, to make him the star we all know he can be.

There is no doubt in my mind that Carlton has been way too lenient on players over the last 10 years, and has created a culture that's not of the level needed to win big games and big finals. Malthouse is just the man to redress that, and was why I was in favour of him coming in as coach (even though the way he presents in the media makes him difficult to like). AFAIC, Malthouse can be as hard with this group as he likes, when the need arises (remembering that he has a history and reputation of supporting and encouraging his players to the hilt, and his players loving him and playing for him).

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

Siegfried wrote:

There was an interesting interview with one of the Sydney mids last week, I think it was Kieren Jack. He said if you're not prepared to run hard both ways then you won't get a game at Sydney. He said it with absolute resolve; there was no room for compromise on that.

and until we set these as the minimum standards we will struggle. We have been good when things go our way but when it gets hard we have struggled. It's not just Yarran but he is a prime example.

Players need to learn that it is no longer good enough and I for one am glad it's happening.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17986

King Kenny wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Yarran was squeezed out due to our forward structure on the night. Separating the Essendon* defenders, preventing Fletcher dropping back to assist their key backs and containing Hibberd. They didnt have faith in him to play the role required.
Unfortunately the tactic didnt work as we unexpectedly dominated the first quarter and couldnt capitalise with a defensive, dysfunctional forward line. I dont understand why the coaches dont just come out and say they made a mistake and move on. They're more than happy to highlight the players when they underperform.
They tried something, it didnt work early. So be it, move on.

Mistake?

We were winning whilst Yarran was sub. Not saying he's at fault for the loss, but he made a big mistake that lost us the lead and had minimal impact apart from two early kicks in the final quarter.

That doesn't support your argument for starting him.

Who said Yarran being the sub was relevant to our loss?

I said our forward structure was dysfunctional due to playing too many defensive forwards. we dominated play and didnt have sufficient options to capitalise.
It was about structure, not personnel.
Just my opinion.

By the way, the coaches openly stated Yarran was squeezed out of the forward line. thats the reality.
Forget the crystal ball gazers and those who think they can channel Mick Malthouse. Someone has to be sub and the MC thought the other players were better suited to the roles required on the night.

Yaz needs to grow up and learn about being a part of a team.

Navy Blue Horse · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm **Posts:** 15848

I'll be astounded if Yarran gets a reprieve. Malthouse is on record, McKay is on record, the leadership group have been referred to - all as saying he got what was coming and that standards have to be met. I'm not saying it won't happen, nothing would surprise, just don't think it should happen. If he plays, it's so Carlton.

AGRO · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:32 am

ThePsychologist wrote:

Siegfried wrote:

There was an interesting interview with one of the Sydney mids last week, I think it was Kieren Jack. He said if you're not prepared to run hard both ways then you won't get a game at Sydney. He said it with absolute resolve; there was no room for compromise on that.

and until we set these as the minimum standards we will struggle. We have been good when things go our way but when it gets hard we have struggled. It's not just Yarran but he is a prime example.

Players need to learn that it is no longer good enough and I for one am glad it's happening.

Once we start seeing Murphy and Judd running both ways we will know we have turned the corner as a team.

People's Elbow · **Joined:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:27 pm **Posts:** 345

No Laidler despite some suggestions he'd play. Am I reading too much into this...

Bluey44 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:38 am

Stone Free · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:01 pm

ThePsychologist wrote:

Siegfried wrote:

There was an interesting interview with one of the Sydney mids last week, I think it was Kieren Jack. He said if you're not prepared to run hard both ways then you won't get a game at Sydney. He said it with absolute resolve; there was no room for compromise on that.

and until we set these as the minimum standards we will struggle. We have been good when things go our way but when it gets hard we have struggled. It's not just Yarran but he is a prime example.

Players need to learn that it is no longer good enough and I for one am glad it's happening.

We'd struggle to field a full team if that was the minimum standard.

camel · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:03 pm

King Kenny wrote:

We will win #bookmarkit ;-)

I've done my bit. Tipped the Hawks by 4 goals.

:thumbsup:

camel · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:04 pm

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

I'll be astounded if Yarran gets a reprieve. Malthouse is on record, McKay is on record, the leadership group have been referred to - all as saying he got what was coming and that standards have to be met. I'm not saying it won't happen, nothing would surprise, just don't think it should happen. If he plays, it's so Carlton.

Yep, so true.

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23911

just got sent this....

Yarran's quote to Mick.

There is no “I” in TEAM but………………

There are 5 “I”s in INDIVIDUAL BRILLIANCE!

:lol:

(well, I laughed.)

Donstuie · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:26 pm

bluegirl72 wrote:

just got sent this....

Yarran's quote to Mick.

There is no “I” in TEAM but………………

There are 5 “I”s in INDIVIDUAL BRILLIANCE!

:lol:

(well, I laughed.)

Upstart QLD cricketer: There's no "I" in team
Trevor Barsby (captain): There's 3 in "I'm the @#$%&! captain"

Bigredisback · **Joined:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm **Posts:** 942

Carazzo won't play

choo · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:59 pm

Greg Swann implied on the radio there was more to it than just body language.
Something like ' there's been a few things we weren't happy with. '
My guess; declaring himself fit v saints

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

Bigredisback wrote:

Carazzo won't play

If so, bring in Rowe to play on Hale/Roughead and Henderson forward.

The Normal One · **Joined:** Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 20076

Siegfried wrote:

There was an interesting interview with one of the Sydney mids last week, I think it was Kieren Jack. He said if you're not prepared to run hard both ways then you won't get a game at Sydney. He said it with absolute resolve; there was no room for compromise on that.

If we want to be a genuine contender, this is what we need to learn. To run both ways. To pick ourselves up when we have no energy left to do so. To gut run, and gut run, and gut run. To sacrifice ourselves for our team mates. To do the team thing, even when we don't agree with it.

We are a long way from that, individually and as a team. The leadership group was hard on Waite, and look what's happened since. Malthouse has been hard on Yarran, let's hope Yarran comes back better than ever. Talk of getting rid of Yarran is ridiculous; the challenge for Yarran, the coaches and the leadership group is to add what's missing to his game, to make him the star we all know he can be.

There is no doubt in my mind that Carlton has been way too lenient on players over the last 10 years, and has created a culture that's not of the level needed to win big games and big finals. Malthouse is just the man to redress that, and was why I was in favour of him coming in as coach (even though the way he presents in the media makes him difficult to like). AFAIC, Malthouse can be as hard with this group as he likes, when the need arises (remembering that he has a history and reputation of supporting and encouraging his players to the hilt, and his players loving him and playing for him).

A coaching group can't add to what a player doesn't want. The challenge has been set for Yarran now. If he wants it he knows what is needed. Destiny in his own hands.

Navy Blue Horse · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm **Posts:** 15848

Or he goes to WC for a first rounder :razz:

Humpers · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm **Posts:** 4931

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Or he goes to WC for a first rounder :razz:

Or maybe Shuey or Gaff.

muzza · **Joined:** Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:41 pm **Posts:** 2385

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Or he goes to WC for a first rounder :razz:

+ Kennedy

Pickle · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:38 pm

Whoever is the sub I just hope MM uses them to our advantage. 11 touches in 4 games is just not enough output from our subs. We are going in with only 21 players each week. MM needs to get on top of that.......fast!!!

R12: Carlton v Hawthorn (pre-match / teams p16)

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