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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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It was a howler, but why didn't ONE SINGLE CARLTON PLAYER pressure the umps into reviewing it?? Any other team, and you'd see at least 3-4 players right there. But with his bunch of introverts, nah, we'll just accept the decision and move on.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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We only lost by 5 points. I think it's the way we lost. If we were 31 points down half through the third quarter and got within 5 points we would be saying we ran out of time but at least we came back hard. Unfortunately it was the opposite. Thats what so disappointing and thats where you find out who can handle pressure and who can't. I think some showed us last night. We know Casboult can.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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mots wrote:
We only lost by 5 points. I think it's the way we lost. If we were 31 points down half through the third quarter and got within 5 points we would be saying we ran out of time but at least we came back hard. Unfortunately it was the opposite.

No, we'd be saying what we said after the Richmond/St Kilda games "Where the @#$%&! was this in the first half!?!"

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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club29 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
No BV it was because we ran it and bombed it in willy nilly.





Yes Cimm, thats because we had no "hit up" targets up forward as they were all up the ground dragging defenders away.
A serious question, what would you like the midfielders to do when they have the ball and are under immense pressure?
Theres nothing wrong with kicking long into the forward line if you have a half reasonable structure to capitalise on it.



Perhaps we were getting the inside 50's because we had numbers up the ground. Essendon* doing to us what the Swans did to them the week before.

If you say is true or not BV but we still had our chances to win well but we were not composed enough to kick the goals nor were we composed enough to stop a few of theirs..........and one of our goals was called a point for some strange reason.



Cant disagree with any of that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:31 pm 
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formerly cj69

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daggs001 wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
The recruiting does need addressing and hopefully the addition of Williams will make a difference.

I thought the picks of Temay, Graham and Menzel were good but I dont get the pick of Cachia. Handy player but does he add to or improve our list?

Someone like Colquhoun or Garlett would of been better. Rookies should be for talented kids with a spot for a Mature Aged ruckman. How many of these kids step up and become good players?

Duigan, Cachia, Curnow, Joseph can go. Add nothing. Big decisons on McCarthy, Watson, Mitchell, OKeefe, Davies, Collins, Dale & Ellard.

Personally I don't care if they all go.

Need to go after some talented young guns via trade if we can and hopefully stockpile some picks for the draft.


Tough on Cachia. Is proving he belongs and deserved his second chance.


Agreed.Based on the evidence Cachia and Curnow are well and truley in our best 22 this year.


Probably true atm but my question remains, are they going to take us forward?

For me it's about becoming a powerhouse again, these type of players won't do that. When we already have guys on our list such as Joseph, Ellard, Carrazzo even McLean why would we waste picks on similar type players?

How many "guns" have come from rookie lists that have been overlooked kids? How many rookies have looked good this year alone? There are some jewels out there and we pick guys that have been tried before.

It is not a direct criticsm of Curnow or Cachia who have both been good and have preformed well in their roles but these type of players will not take us to the top and thats what I'm interested in.

Personally at this stage I would prefer to play a kid in a run with role on a good player and let him learn what it takes. e.g. let Yarran run with a Stanton or Watson, even for a half, he will soon see what it takes to go to the next level.

You have one or two on a list but no more. IMO it has been bad list management.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Unless we can beat teams above us on the ladder we will never rise from where we are. We can't rely on them to beat each other. That will only ever get us to position eight or maybe seven.

If I could find my pre-game post where I predicted a few things that happened I'd post it here and pat myself on the back.

How hard would it have been to switch Waite and Hendo?
The bhoth won their first half and then dropped off. Both can play both ends.

Fletcher plays the same role every week. Run around loose taking marks and dishing off passes. He is NEVER made accountable. I mentioned this last week as did a few others. Put Robbo on him. Put Walker n him.
Put SOMEONE on him.

MM is NOT a match day coach as it seems Hird is. He is the most recent in a long line of conservative coaches we have had that trust their pre-game plan and then stick to it like glue. Sometimes it pays to read the game and make a few changes. Occasionally they work.
Like today. Switch Hurley and Carlisle and both turned out winners.

Their first four goals IIR resulted from slipped tackles.

It's a weakness we have.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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CK95 wrote:
Lucas yeah not sure. Better players have missed sitters like that so I'm not going to dwell on it too much. My issue is more in general play, as soon as he gets the ball so often he tends to hesitate, even if there's a clear option or if he's in space. Understand he gives us run but can his drawbacks be ironed out?


I reckon it's because he's not confident about his disposal. Until the last month or so, Curnow was doing the same. Always pausing and looking for someone more skilful he could handball to.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Blue Vain wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter. As much as I hate saying it, Hird and Thompson have had the better of us in the box 2 out the past 3 games.
Our decision to use Betts, Armfield and Garlett to drag Baguley, Hibberd and Fletcher up the ground backfired badly.
They sagged off their opponents and had 21 possies between them in the first quarter.
The stupidity is we absolutely controlled the ball and had 18 inside 50s for the quarter. To walk away with one goal was a disgrace. We should have expected 4 goals minimum from that sort of dominance.
T\Adding to that, the coaches need to understand that if the opposition have a loose man in defence, taking numbers away increases their advantage.
3 against 2 is far more effective than 7 against 6 yet we allowed them the advantage by vacating the forward line. :screwy:

For those who talk about us failing to run out 100 minutes, nobody can. The game is to fast and too highly paced. The key is to capitalise on your opportunities when you have momentum and we failed to do that. Essendon* went into the game with a plan to shut down our switches of play and to leave a goalkeeper behind the ball. It took our coaches a quarter to address it and unfortunately the opportunities presented by our early dominance were gone.
To see the ball continually hit the deck without us having front and centre crumbers was doing my head in.

As I've said all along, we have the personnel to play finals footy but we're just going along at the moment. Our form is virtually where it was at the start of the season and we need to find the key accelerate our improvement.
Its not about cutting the guts out of the list at the moment. Its about getting the maximum output from the personnel available to you. We're still not doing that.
Lastly, I'm not a great Warnock fan but I wanted him in the team this week to capitalise on Ryders lack of height and support and the non selection was an error IMO. In the last quarter, their mids received silver service at the stoppages.
Too focussed on limiting their strengths instead of capitalising on ours was the biggest mistake.

Bollocks!


Excellent rebuttal.
You should change your name to eloquent wordsmith. :lol:


:grin:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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We played a very good team last night.
We've lost to very good teams this year (Saints lost :mad: ) Cats, Pies, Tiges and Bumbers, but we played well and could've won if this and that.

I just watched the replay and have to say we dominated this game, even in the last we played hard, but we made a lot of mistakes, and didn't give the ball off to a team mate in better position within close range when we should have.

Disposal in the last cost us more than mistakes imo. Murphy could not hit a target. Judd couldn't hit a target, Simmo couldn't hit a target, Kreuzer couldn't hit a target, Garlett couldn't hit a target, Walker couldn't hit a target, Hendo couldn't hit a target, Lucas couldn't hit a target, White couldn't hit a target and it went on and on...I thought Scotto was great in the last quarter whereas last night I thought he was average.

Now those missing targets aren't average players but they performed as such, with the exception of the average Lucas and White who are average, but at least 10 of those were to targets in the forwardline. Hendo's 2 last kicks were terrible and unlike his kicking earlier on.

We should've killed 'em.

We have the players to get the ball and do some damage but we need our top line players to not @#$%&! up at critical times and their passing shoul not miss at this level. I'm talking Murphy, Judd, Walker, Simmo, Kreuzer in particular...you cost us opportunities to win the game.

They can get better, and I'm sure MM will disect the game to find out why we let them in space in the last 5 minutes when in the rest of the game we had their measure and locked down.

We will get better. We didn't lose because of Cachia and Curnow. They kept us in the game.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:55 pm 
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formerly cj69

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bondiblue wrote:
We will get better. We didn't lose because of Cachia and Curnow. They kept us in the game.


If your referring to my comments on them BB that is not even close to what I said. :banghead:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:59 pm 
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formerly cj69

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bondiblue wrote:
We played a very good team last night.


Really? I don't rate them that highly. For me it's Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong and the possibly Freo then a gap to the rest.

Essendon* are like us. Some talent but a long way to go.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Essendon* are shit

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:02 pm 
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formerly Blue Boots

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A bigger steal than the Bradbury Gold. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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ThePsychologist wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
We will get better. We didn't lose because of Cachia and Curnow. They kept us in the game.


If your referring to my comments on them BB that is not even close to what I said. :banghead:


No I wasn't. I totally get where you are coming from and the same can be said about McLean, Ellard, Rowe, Watson.

The point I was making was that Bumbers are a good team IMO, that Cachia and Curnow were very very good last night and over the last month, and they weren't the reason we didn't beat them but moreso the weak disposal efforts and choices our more experienced (and well played) senior players made.

The Bumbers are a good team, who got smashed on a small SCG ground which is a bread n butter venue for the Swans. Mark it down for a win every time.

They've had some good wins this year, and at times have looked fantastic...as we have...but I don't think we're as shocking as some think. We did OK last night, and we still have an opportunity to learn more about ourselves as we test against the best in the next month.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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grrofunger wrote:
Essendon* are shit

This!
Crap team...!
. We don't have a backbone...

Back to the drawing board.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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ThePsychologist wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
We played a very good team last night.


Really? I don't rate them that highly. For me it's Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong and the possibly Freo then a gap to the rest.

Essendon* are like us. Some talent but a long way to go.

They're better at getting for points than we are....
We're are worse than them.

When we begin to win the winables we might become better if they can't win them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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ThePsychologist wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
We played a very good team last night.


Really? I don't rate them that highly. For me it's Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong and the possibly Freo then a gap to the rest.

Essendon* are like us. Some talent but a long way to go.


Just because you don't rate them highly doesn't mean they aren't a good footy team.
I think all you're saying is that there's even better teams than them.

We are a good team, getting better and have let our opponents win the games we could've won....but didn't know how too, or our coach didn't know how to help us...imo.

That doesn't mean we are a long way behind all the others.
Look forward to Hawks game rather than shitting myself re a belting...we can win after a 7 day break.
WE can win if we do things better...and I believe we will improve as the year progresses and players fix up their weaknesses and not repeat their mistakes.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bondiblue wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
We played a very good team last night.


Really? I don't rate them that highly. For me it's Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong and the possibly Freo then a gap to the rest.

Essendon* are like us. Some talent but a long way to go.


Just because you don't rate them highly doesn't mean they aren't a good footy team.
I think all you're saying is that there's even better teams than them.

We are a good team, getting better and have let our opponents win the games we could've won....but didn't know how too, or our coach didn't know how to help us...imo.

That doesn't mean we are a long way behind all the others.
Look forward to Hawks game rather than shitting myself re a belting...we can win after a 7 day break.
WE can win if we do things better...and I believe we will improve as the year progresses and players fix up their weaknesses and not repeat their mistakes.


:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Synbad wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Essendon* are shit

This!
Crap team...!
. We don't have a backbone...

Back to the drawing board.


Well lets build a backbone!! Start with what we've got.

The glass is half full.....we'll fill the other half next season.

FB: Jamison

CHB:............. fill this spot to release Henderson in a KPF.

R: Warnock/Kreuzer/Hampson/Casboult

CHF: Henderson

FF: Waite

Hendo's become our Leppitch at CHB, after Leppitch was the premier KPF before the era of the Lions clicked...but Leppitch was released by having Alistair lLynch and Jonathon Brown as their key posts....Hendo is forced to play CHB because of need.

We need a CHB and an elite 10 in the midfield.

If the midfield wins their zone (clearance, offense, defense) and feed the forwards...well, we know we have forwards to compliment those 2 key posts (Waite & Hendo)....Betts, Garlett, Yarran, Walker, Menzel, Armfield, Robinson, Gibbs, Murphy.

Now if we can get better in the midfield without relying on Judd and we shouldn't rely on Simpson and Scotland in there because they're slowing down too, we will become consistent and stronger and dominant.

What we have to remember though is we do have Judd, Simpson and Scotland to throw into the mix in smaller doses without carrying them. That's gold for 2013-2014.

We need a bigger engine in the midfield and a CHB.

Our story towards our next flag is primarily about the cattle we've got.
What is part of our DNA is that we go out and get 'em.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Why can't our 3rd year (or any of them) players run just as hard in the last quarter as the first?
Why don't we have multiple players able to kick goals from the centre square in the last quarter?
How has Essendon*'s player development gone past us in 2 years?

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