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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
ThePsychologist wrote:
Effes wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
Lyon comes in, healthy list


Yeh, Sandilands has only missed 10 games.

Fyfe has only missed 13 games

:lol:


Whether you like Lyon or not his ability to get the best out of players and to get them to play a team style football where everyone has and understands their role is impressive.


Harvey de-listed Clancee Pearce.

Lyon rookie listed him - Pearce will finish top 7 in their B&F.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:34 am 
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formerly cj69

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Effes wrote:
Harvey de-listed Clancee Pearce.

Lyon rookie listed him - Pearce will finish top 7 in their B&F.


Exactly. This is why I am critical of Ratten. As a new inexperienced coach he should never been put in charge of a bunch of kids. Both in a severe learning phase is a recipe for disaster. Bad habits are learnt.

Sticks has to be held responsible for this as I actually believe he has done his "mate" a huge disservice.

We have won 11 games this year yet how many on our list have had a great year? IMO there is so much upside if we can get it right.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2646
my two cents wrote:
redback wrote:
I know you're been condescending but so would I MTC.
The big games at the G and with some money spent on PP we would have our own little boutique that we could build into a home ground advantage like the interstates.
All the advantage of advertising, catering and hosting other lower crowd pulling games for gate taking.
Not a bad little earner.
Hawthorn and the Roos go to Tassie.
The Roos looking at Ballarat.
Richmond selling home games to Cairns.
Geelong has its own or doesn't that count because it's 60 km away.


Ok. Tell me how you are going to fit 40 - 50 k members plus opposition supporters into a 30k stadium ?

Hawks play in Tassie because the state govt sponsors them to play there. Also they have small Tassie supporter base that can fit into the local stadium. Not to mention all those pissed off supporters who could not get in due to capacity limitations.

Richmond SOLD games to Cairns different to playing without any committed income. Also being in Cairns they do not have to worry about fitting their Melbourne members into a small stadium.

Geelong's stadium build and refurbishment is supported by the local / state govt. That changes the economics significantly.

We would had have to refurbish Princes park at our own expense that would be another few millions just to bring it to basic standards, in addition to Legends stand debt to be recovered by 4 to 5 games a year. You do the simple maths. Any revenues you would get from catering, advertising etc would be insignificant compared to the running and debt servicing costs.


Do all the members go to Etihad?
How do Geelong fit all their members in the ground?
Don't they get TV coverage?
Carlton can't get state, local govt or AFL funding?
Why would it only be 4-5 games a year?
Naming rights, social club, advertising and hiring to other low attendance teams, Northern games and catering, merchandising?
I'm sure having control of our own ground for 100 years bought in a nice little profit over those years and also a sense of an actual home.
All the interstate clubs have more members than seats also.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 417
redback wrote:
my two cents wrote:
redback wrote:
I know you're been condescending but so would I MTC.
The big games at the G and with some money spent on PP we would have our own little boutique that we could build into a home ground advantage like the interstates.
All the advantage of advertising, catering and hosting other lower crowd pulling games for gate taking.
Not a bad little earner.
Hawthorn and the Roos go to Tassie.
The Roos looking at Ballarat.
Richmond selling home games to Cairns.
Geelong has its own or doesn't that count because it's 60 km away.


Ok. Tell me how you are going to fit 40 - 50 k members plus opposition supporters into a 30k stadium ?

Hawks play in Tassie because the state govt sponsors them to play there. Also they have small Tassie supporter base that can fit into the local stadium. Not to mention all those pissed off supporters who could not get in due to capacity limitations.

Richmond SOLD games to Cairns different to playing without any committed income. Also being in Cairns they do not have to worry about fitting their Melbourne members into a small stadium.

Geelong's stadium build and refurbishment is supported by the local / state govt. That changes the economics significantly.

We would had have to refurbish Princes park at our own expense that would be another few millions just to bring it to basic standards, in addition to Legends stand debt to be recovered by 4 to 5 games a year. You do the simple maths. Any revenues you would get from catering, advertising etc would be insignificant compared to the running and debt servicing costs.


Do all the members go to Etihad?
How do Geelong fit all their members in the ground?
Don't they get TV coverage?
Carlton can't get state, local govt or AFL funding?
Why would it only be 4-5 games a year?
Naming rights, social club, advertising and hiring to other low attendance teams, Northern games and catering, merchandising?
I'm sure having control of our own ground for 100 years bought in a nice little profit over those years and also a sense of an actual home.
All the interstate clubs have more members than seats also.


It happens all around the world, in all different kinds of sports.

The EPL for example, the stadiums often have far less capacity than members of the clubs and there is always limited seating for away team supporters. TV rights are where the money is and if you cant fit into the ground you'll watch it live on TV!!!

Anyway it will never happen but not because of capacity!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Geelong
redback wrote:
my two cents wrote:
redback wrote:
I know you're been condescending but so would I MTC.
The big games at the G and with some money spent on PP we would have our own little boutique that we could build into a home ground advantage like the interstates.
All the advantage of advertising, catering and hosting other lower crowd pulling games for gate taking.
Not a bad little earner.
Hawthorn and the Roos go to Tassie.
The Roos looking at Ballarat.
Richmond selling home games to Cairns.
Geelong has its own or doesn't that count because it's 60 km away.


Ok. Tell me how you are going to fit 40 - 50 k members plus opposition supporters into a 30k stadium ?

Hawks play in Tassie because the state govt sponsors them to play there. Also they have small Tassie supporter base that can fit into the local stadium. Not to mention all those pissed off supporters who could not get in due to capacity limitations.

Richmond SOLD games to Cairns different to playing without any committed income. Also being in Cairns they do not have to worry about fitting their Melbourne members into a small stadium.

Geelong's stadium build and refurbishment is supported by the local / state govt. That changes the economics significantly.

We would had have to refurbish Princes park at our own expense that would be another few millions just to bring it to basic standards, in addition to Legends stand debt to be recovered by 4 to 5 games a year. You do the simple maths. Any revenues you would get from catering, advertising etc would be insignificant compared to the running and debt servicing costs.


Do all the members go to Etihad?
How do Geelong fit all their members in the ground?
Don't they get TV coverage?
Carlton can't get state, local govt or AFL funding?
Why would it only be 4-5 games a year?
Naming rights, social club, advertising and hiring to other low attendance teams, Northern games and catering, merchandising?
I'm sure having control of our own ground for 100 years bought in a nice little profit over those years and also a sense of an actual home.
All the interstate clubs have more members than seats also.


Geelong's stadium?? It's my @#$%@#$% rates that are paying for the bloody thing!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
(Sore point :wink: )


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Geelong
redback wrote:
my two cents wrote:
redback wrote:
I know you're been condescending but so would I MTC.
The big games at the G and with some money spent on PP we would have our own little boutique that we could build into a home ground advantage like the interstates.
All the advantage of advertising, catering and hosting other lower crowd pulling games for gate taking.
Not a bad little earner.
Hawthorn and the Roos go to Tassie.
The Roos looking at Ballarat.
Richmond selling home games to Cairns.
Geelong has its own or doesn't that count because it's 60 km away.


Ok. Tell me how you are going to fit 40 - 50 k members plus opposition supporters into a 30k stadium ?

Hawks play in Tassie because the state govt sponsors them to play there. Also they have small Tassie supporter base that can fit into the local stadium. Not to mention all those pissed off supporters who could not get in due to capacity limitations.

Richmond SOLD games to Cairns different to playing without any committed income. Also being in Cairns they do not have to worry about fitting their Melbourne members into a small stadium.

Geelong's stadium build and refurbishment is supported by the local / state govt. That changes the economics significantly.

We would had have to refurbish Princes park at our own expense that would be another few millions just to bring it to basic standards, in addition to Legends stand debt to be recovered by 4 to 5 games a year. You do the simple maths. Any revenues you would get from catering, advertising etc would be insignificant compared to the running and debt servicing costs.


Do all the members go to Etihad?
How do Geelong fit all their members in the ground?
Don't they get TV coverage?
Carlton can't get state, local govt or AFL funding?
Why would it only be 4-5 games a year?
Naming rights, social club, advertising and hiring to other low attendance teams, Northern games and catering, merchandising?
I'm sure having control of our own ground for 100 years bought in a nice little profit over those years and also a sense of an actual home.
All the interstate clubs have more members than seats also.


Geelong's stadium?? It's my @#$%@#$% rates that are paying for the bloody thing!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
(Sore point :wink: )


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Posts: 572
redback wrote:
Do all the members go to Etihad?
How do Geelong fit all their members in the ground?
Don't they get TV coverage?
Carlton can't get state, local govt or AFL funding?
Why would it only be 4-5 games a year?
Naming rights, social club, advertising and hiring to other low attendance teams, Northern games and catering, merchandising?
I'm sure having control of our own ground for 100 years bought in a nice little profit over those years and also a sense of an actual home.
All the interstate clubs have more members than seats also.


Given that our attendances are between 40 - 48 k at Etihad. I would say about 80% do. Which would be say 35 k for now. But if we get better organised on and off field, our membership should touch 50 k + which would mean even Etihad might be small for many of the games we currently play at the stadium. That would mean at PP only about 50% would get in and even less as our memberships grows.

Geelong have less than 40k members on back of a well performing team. While we should touch 50k easily if we get our house in order.

Ahh TV coverage. I am sure supporters can watch games on tv or internet but then why would they buy a membership or premium one. Potentially less merchandise sales?

Why would the state or local govt fund PP build when there are two quality stadiums in the city ? You have a local area body that does not want games to be played and more importantly AFL is unwilling to even schedule games at the venue. IIRC state funding for PP redevelopment (Player facilities etc) was provided on the basis that games would not be played at the venue.

Tell me which teams would you schedule at PP ? Assuming AFL are ok with the idea.

The cost of refurbishing PP to reasonable standards will be significant in tens of millions, compared to that the revenue from social club, advertising, Northern games and catering will be a pittance.

Merchandising should be the same at PP vs Etihad or MCG. Naming rights should not generate anymore than we currently make.

Hiring to other low attendance teams - These teams would only be interested if we offer them clean stadiums so that they can bring in their own advertising.

Time to move on...ain't going to happen...ain't going to work

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Last edited by my two cents on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Posts: 572
lily of laguna wrote:
It happens all around the world, in all different kinds of sports.

The EPL for example, the stadiums often have far less capacity than members of the clubs and there is always limited seating for away team supporters. TV rights are where the money is and if you cant fit into the ground you'll watch it live on TV!!!

Anyway it will never happen but not because of capacity!!!!


The point is that capacity restrictions negatively impacts on memberships revenues, especially when a bigger stadium with better facilities is available.

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Scott, things aren't as happy as they used to be down here at the unemployment office. Joblessness is no longer just for Philosophy majors - useful people are starting to feel the pinch.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10575
How do Hawthorn fit all there 50K members in Launceston as well....anyway that's another state, so silly me....don't get caught up in this redback. Not worth hitting your against :banghead:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
SurreyBlue wrote:
How do Hawthorn fit all there 50K members in Launceston as well....anyway that's another state, so silly me....don't get caught up in this redback. Not worth hitting your against :banghead:


:lol: :sly:

Surrey.... first tell us... who will pay the 40 million minimum to upgrade that ground... for 4 games a year....

your pies with sauce???? :screwy:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 417
my two cents wrote:
lily of laguna wrote:
It happens all around the world, in all different kinds of sports.

The EPL for example, the stadiums often have far less capacity than members of the clubs and there is always limited seating for away team supporters. TV rights are where the money is and if you cant fit into the ground you'll watch it live on TV!!!

Anyway it will never happen but not because of capacity!!!!


The point is that capacity restrictions negatively impacts on memberships revenues, especially when a bigger stadium with better facilities is available.


Possibly but if the club has most home games v big rivals at the G and only interstate teams at PP and membership packages reflect that, then we are not really losing too many $$$$.

Anyway my point is capacity is not the reason that we as a club will not play AFL games at PP.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:03 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Synbad wrote:
That Murdoch can play though eh????

Just didnt catch the recruiters eye at all.....



But they did...


Last edited by ColourMan on Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:05 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
mots wrote:
The worrying part about this is it may well be true.


It is :banghead:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:06 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm
Posts: 4426
Synbad wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
How do Hawthorn fit all there 50K members in Launceston as well....anyway that's another state, so silly me....don't get caught up in this redback. Not worth hitting your against :banghead:


:lol: :sly:

Surrey.... first tell us... who will pay the 40 million minimum to upgrade that ground... for 4 games a year....

your pies with sauce???? :screwy:

Peanuts!....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:34 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
It must be off season. "Move back to Princes Park" and "give Fisher his 100th" What decade is this?

FWIW I think Callan Beasy will captain the club


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:47 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:52 am
Posts: 1197
AFL 360

[youtube]8zAd5iIK3RM[/youtube]
[youtube]XNOSGU8qIuY[/youtube]


On the Couch

[youtube]2j_r8jcl7fA[/youtube]

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:22 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:42 pm
Posts: 2833
SurreyBlue wrote:
How do Hawthorn fit all there 50K members in Launceston as well....anyway that's another state, so silly me....don't get caught up in this redback. Not worth hitting your against :banghead:


Surrey, Hawthorn members get replacement games in Melbourne for their Launceston games. Those games are against us and Geelong not sure who the other 2 are.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:25 am 
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Bert Deacon
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Posts: 572
Cheers Wooks :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:35 am 
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Craig Bradley
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my two cents wrote:
Cheers Wooks :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:17 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2646
my two cents wrote:
redback wrote:
Do all the members go to Etihad?
How do Geelong fit all their members in the ground?
Don't they get TV coverage?
Carlton can't get state, local govt or AFL funding?
Why would it only be 4-5 games a year?
Naming rights, social club, advertising and hiring to other low attendance teams, Northern games and catering, merchandising?
I'm sure having control of our own ground for 100 years bought in a nice little profit over those years and also a sense of an actual home.
All the interstate clubs have more members than seats also.


Given that our attendances are between 40 - 48 k at Etihad. I would say about 80% do. Which would be say 35 k for now. But if we get better organised on and off field, our membership should touch 50 k + which would mean even Etihad might be small for many of the games we currently play at the stadium. That would mean at PP only about 50% would get in and even less as our memberships grows.

Geelong have less than 40k members on back of a well performing team. While we should touch 50k easily if we get our house in order.

Ahh TV coverage. I am sure supporters can watch games on tv or internet but then why would they buy a membership or premium one. Potentially less merchandise sales?

Why would the state or local govt fund PP build when there are two quality stadiums in the city ? You have a local area body that does not want games to be played and more importantly AFL is unwilling to even schedule games at the venue. IIRC state funding for PP redevelopment (Player facilities etc) was provided on the basis that games would not be played at the venue.

Tell me which teams would you schedule at PP ? Assuming AFL are ok with the idea.

The cost of refurbishing PP to reasonable standards will be significant in tens of millions, compared to that the revenue from social club, advertising, Northern games and catering will be a pittance.

Merchandising should be the same at PP vs Etihad or MCG. Naming rights should not generate anymore than we currently make.

Hiring to other low attendance teams - These teams would only be interested if we offer them clean stadiums so that they can bring in their own advertising.

Time to move on...ain't going to happen...ain't going to work


I didn't say it was going to happen I said I would like to see it happen for a number of reasons.
Firstly our own home ground that we could build an advantage.
A sense of belonging.
Funding could be possible if you had the right people fighting for it, or nothing changes in this world by your point of view.
How would catering be a pittance? If we run and control it?
Whey would naming rights and advertising be the same? If all the revenue goes directly to us?
Package deals for Northern and Carlton together.
Membership could be split for MCG and PP or packaged, select or minimised depending on preference
PP membership could work as selective or package, ie business, boxed, gold club etc etc. supply /demand.
Monday night games.
Package deals with metro blah blah blah.
Thank god Packer didn't say :screwy:

If you want to be innovative start with building an advantage over the other clubs in Melbourne.


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