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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
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Whoops I was mixing up my Matera's, can't even remember Phil playing in a flag?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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gerry atric wrote:
Sigfired (and Warby) wrote:
How many small forwards, who haven't have the ability to run through the midfield (specialist small forwards), have played in a Premiership? I can think of one - Phil Matera. Can't think of any others.


I think you are offbeam there boys. Matera was a gun wingman/midefielder not a small forward and KB was a gun first rover /midfielder who became a forward in the twilight of his career when he was about 35

Cyril Rioli barely runs thru the midfield, neither Lewis Jetta but both have flags, also Shannon Byrnes and Mat Stokes were small forwards in Cats flag sides. Let's go back a long way - Syd Jackson


Not offbeam at all.....he might've been called a rover in those days; but, it was near goals where he was always incredibly dangerous and a matchwinner....and I should know....I watched him destroy us for over 10 years.

He wasn't named ''Hungry'' for no reason.....he would not handpass..... :grin:

He was so good; that the then VFL had to change the ''holding the man'' rule, because he learned how to exploit it to his advantage.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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dane wrote:
I am very happy most of you have nothing to do with our list management.


You want this lot to keep going? :confused: "wow, just wow"

Sydney Blue wrote:
Why do so many posters have this obsession for trading players for draft picks
Since when has carlton been any good at using draft picks , with the exceptions of the number 1's and 2's we suck at using draft picks
The club couldn't pick its nose when it came to using draft picks you would be hard pressed to find one player who with have successfully brought into the team via drafting with picks
So we trade one dud we used a draft pick on for another pick to pick another dud
Doesn't make sense to me


Yeah, great logic, we are crap at it so let's give-in.

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Last edited by Pafloyul on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Our previous drafting record has no relationship to this season. In fact in the last two seasons we have only had 5 live picks and a father son. With a new recruiting department, if we took 6 kids that would be fine with me.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:04 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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The Rhino wrote:
AGRO wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
We never had Thomas, we never had pick 6. Ergo, we haven't "lost" them.



Do you think Ergo will fall to us with our second round draft pick?


It's not a dirty word.


Isn't he from 'Planet of the Apes'?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:27 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Warby wrote:
gerry atric wrote:
Sigfired (and Warby) wrote:
How many small forwards, who haven't have the ability to run through the midfield (specialist small forwards), have played in a Premiership? I can think of one - Phil Matera. Can't think of any others.


I think you are offbeam there boys. Matera was a gun wingman/midefielder not a small forward and KB was a gun first rover /midfielder who became a forward in the twilight of his career when he was about 35

Cyril Rioli barely runs thru the midfield, neither Lewis Jetta but both have flags, also Shannon Byrnes and Mat Stokes were small forwards in Cats flag sides. Let's go back a long way - Syd Jackson


Not offbeam at all.....he might've been called a rover in those days; but, it was near goals where he was always incredibly dangerous and a matchwinner....and I should know....I watched him destroy us for over 10 years.

He wasn't named ''Hungry'' for no reason.....he would not handpass..... :grin:

He was so good; that the then VFL had to change the ''holding the man'' rule, because he learned how to exploit it to his advantage.


Point is Warbs, aside from Matera, we're having to go back 40 years, to a time where football was completely different, to one of the all time greats, to find another. As for Rioli, Stokes etc, they all play midfield, even if it's only 20%. They contribute to rotations and allow the other mids to get a chop out.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:08 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
Warby wrote:
Siegfried wrote:
A thought to ponder...

How many small forwards, who haven't have the ability to run through the midfield (specialist small forwards), have played in a Premiership? I can think of one - Phil Matera. Can't think of any others.
We have three who have been played mostly as specialist small forwards. Betts has had some runs through the midfield, especially in the last month of the season. Garlett has very brief stints there. Yarran can play a role across half back, but Malthouse seems to want to use him forward.

I could see us playing all three if Yarran played across half back (where I think he should play, and be taught the defensive element. He's too good to be getting 10 possessions in the forward line, he needs to be getting 20+ possessions each week), Betts played 30-40% midfield and Garlett could up his midfield time similarly.

Which of them will be there next year is another question.


Kevin Bartlett springs to mind immediately.....he broke our hearts many times with his speed and goal kicking ability....especially in Finals.

He kicked 778 goals in a great career.

And he was a rover resting in the pocket who spent less and less time in the middle as he got older.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:24 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:07 pm
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Mitch Morton played in last year's Premiership


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Ballantyne and Walters may well be premiership players in 7 days.
They're specialist small forwards. Even Chris Mayne plays predominantly as a half forward.

Seems to work alright for Freo.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:20 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Blue Vain wrote:
Ballantyne and Walters may well be premiership players in 7 days.
They're specialist small forwards. Even Chris Mayne plays predominantly as a half forward.

Seems to work alright for Freo.


Firstly I would class Mayne as playing more a key position leading role. He is the foil and mobile target supporting Pavlich and Clarke.

As for Ballantyne & Walters they play a lot up the ground and through the midfield. Watch tonight you will even find them in defence at times. They play so much more of a team role than our smalls. Walters wouldn't be playing otherwise.

Compare them to their roles before Lyon and the difference is massive. Do they play the small forward role? Yes, but they are so much more.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Yes, I see Eddie and Jeff and Yazz pushing into the backline too.
But thats somehow different, isnt it?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:08 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Blue Vain wrote:
Yes, I see Eddie and Jeff and Yazz pushing into the backline too.
But thats somehow different, isnt it?


Yes it is. By a long long way

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2760
The value of our boys playing in two finals, feeling a win and getting a real lesson in what is required to play into the 3rd week >>> the difference of 3-4 spots in the draft from finishing 9th or 10th to 6th.
It may narrow our choice slightly but I reckon generally after the first 5 picks, the next 10 are a lottery - they are all very talented kids. What they turn into depends on many factors, mostly unknowable st the time of the draft.

The following players were picked b/w pick 10-20 in 2007, 2008, 2009 drafts (too early to tell much from 2010, 2011, 2012 drafts): Dangerfield, Rioli, Brad Ebert, Harry Taylor, Callan Ward, Sidebottom, Shuey, Daniel Talia

The following players were picked beyond pick 20 in 2007, 2008, 2009 drafts: Pears, Selwood, Westhoff, Mayne, Taylor Walker, Ballantyne, Jackson Trengove (PA), Redden (Bris), Dayne Beams, Hannebury, Shield, Steven Motlop, Rory Soane, Fyfe, Bastinac, Carlisle (!!!), Gunston, Vardy


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:36 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: melbourne
Shane kersten, second rounder..make him a good offer..
Luke shuey, yarran and maybe betts compo pick..
First pick, Lennon, Kelly, Salem, sheed, billings etc..
Kieran Harper from north, pick we get for laidler..
Would like too see 2014,
Simpson Jamison tuohy
Walker Watson harper
Gibbs shuey graham
Robinson Henderson Waite
Menzel kersten garlett
Kreuzer judd murphy
Carrazzo bell mcInnes first pick, hopefully sheed or Lennon..


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:45 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1651
The one that gets me is Fyfe. Just once can we manage to pick up a gem?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:46 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Upper Swan.
Rod Waddell wrote:
The one that gets me is Fyfe. Just once can we manage to pick up a gem?


Overrated though Rod.

:grin:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:22 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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blueboy23 wrote:
Shane kersten, second rounder..make him a good offer..


I don't get the fascination with recruiting a club's third or fourth best KPF. He's just a good/ordinary undersized back-up player.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:34 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
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Rod Waddell wrote:
The one that gets me is Fyfe. Just once can we manage to pick up a gem?

Whilst Hughes, Rodgers and Swan are there, no gems will be selected.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:44 am
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We got Mclean. Could have got Fyfe.
painful hindsight


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:07 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Menzel_Mayhem wrote:
We got Mclean. Could have got Fyfe.
painful hindsight


The issue is we don't seem to learn.

Imagine names like Fyfe, Murdoch, Ziebell, Rockliff, Duncan, Fitzpatrick, Barlow, Darling, Neale etc on our list. Would we be a better side?

The problem is you can't get it back. :banghead:

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