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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:41 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
WOW wrote:
Easy to say this in hindsight but I would have considered moving Henderson forward in the second half. He was playing well back but our conversion in the forward half was poor all night. Sometimes going for the killer punch at that crucial time is what is required to put teams away. We definitely had enough ball to win this match comfortably.



Exactly my point before the game.

If we are winning more ball than them then we should ensure we have quality to kick to. Quality to read the play to get it and quality shot at goal. Imo Casboult and Kreuzer are not reliable shots at goal this year and Waitey has been iffy.

Hendo is an exceptional mark because of his ability to read the play and position himself right....plus the soft hands.

Have a look how many tall backmen Bumbers had when Carlisle took that mark in the dying minutes...if we had a leading Hendo to kick to........ :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:42 am 
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Trevor Keogh

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Posts: 770
BlueLife wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
lost it half way through the third...you could see them coming...Lucas misses, then Kreuzer marks and instead of slowing it down and taking a set shit panics and plays on. No composure. We played like north do.


Kreuzer's mark was called play on by the ump as it didn't travel the distance. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good analogy.



Well it is Kruiz, apparently now , he is no good. Yes, it was called play on. We need Warnock to replace Kruiz so he can get one possession


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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bondiblue wrote:
WOW wrote:
Easy to say this in hindsight but I would have considered moving Henderson forward in the second half. He was playing well back but our conversion in the forward half was poor all night. Sometimes going for the killer punch at that crucial time is what is required to put teams away. We definitely had enough ball to win this match comfortably.



Exactly my point before the game.

If we are winning more ball than them then we should ensure we have quality to kick to. Quality to read the play to get it and quality shot at goal. Imo Casboult and Kreuzer are not reliable shots at goal this year and Waitey has been iffy.



Have a look how many tall backmen Bumbers had when Carlisle took that mark in the dying minutes...if we had a leading Hendo to kick to........ :roll:


Yes, I mentioned this as well. change it up. with Walker too. yaz can still go back, as well as Waitey.
Hendo is an exceptional mark because of his ability to read the play and position himself right....plus the soft hands.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:47 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter. As much as I hate saying it, Hird and Thompson have had the better of us in the box 2 out the past 3 games.
Our decision to use Betts, Armfield and Garlett to drag Baguley, Hibberd and Fletcher up the ground backfired badly.
They sagged off their opponents and had 21 possies between them in the first quarter.
The stupidity is we absolutely controlled the ball and had 18 inside 50s for the quarter. To walk away with one goal was a disgrace. We should have expected 4 goals minimum from that sort of dominance.
T\Adding to that, the coaches need to understand that if the opposition have a loose man in defence, taking numbers away increases their advantage.
3 against 2 is far more effective than 7 against 6 yet we allowed them the advantage by vacating the forward line. :screwy:

For those who talk about us failing to run out 100 minutes, nobody can. The game is to fast and too highly paced. The key is to capitalise on your opportunities when you have momentum and we failed to do that. Essendon* went into the game with a plan to shut down our switches of play and to leave a goalkeeper behind the ball. It took our coaches a quarter to address it and unfortunately the opportunities presented by our early dominance were gone.
To see the ball continually hit the deck without us having front and centre crumbers was doing my head in.

As I've said all along, we have the personnel to play finals footy but we're just going along at the moment. Our form is virtually where it was at the start of the season and we need to find the key accelerate our improvement.
Its not about cutting the guts out of the list at the moment. Its about getting the maximum output from the personnel available to you. We're still not doing that.
Lastly, I'm not a great Warnock fan but I wanted him in the team this week to capitalise on Ryders lack of height and support and the non selection was an error IMO. In the last quarter, their mids received silver service at the stoppages.
Too focussed on limiting their strengths instead of capitalising on ours was the biggest mistake.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:57 am 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:37 am
Posts: 770
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter. As much as I hate saying it, Hird and Thompson have had the better of us in the box 2 out the past 3 games.
Our decision to use Betts, Armfield and Garlett to drag Baguley, Hibberd and Fletcher up the ground backfired badly.
They sagged off their opponents and had 21 possies between them in the first quarter.
The stupidity is we absolutely controlled the ball and had 18 inside 50s for the quarter. To walk away with one goal was a disgrace. We should have expected 4 goals minimum from that sort of dominance.
T\Adding to that, the coaches need to understand that if the opposition have a loose man in defence, taking numbers away increases their advantage.
3 against 2 is far more effective than 7 against 6 yet we allowed them the advantage by vacating the forward line. :screwy:

For those who talk about us failing to run out 100 minutes, nobody can. The game is to fast and too highly paced. The key is to capitalise on your opportunities when you have momentum and we failed to do that. Essendon* went into the game with a plan to shut down our switches of play and to leave a goalkeeper behind the ball. It took our coaches a quarter to address it and unfortunately the opportunities presented by our early dominance were gone.
To see the ball continually hit the deck without us having front and centre crumbers was doing my head in.

As I've said all along, we have the personnel to play finals footy but we're just going along at the moment. Our form is virtually where it was at the start of the season and we need to find the key accelerate our improvement.
Its not about cutting the guts out of the list at the moment. Its about getting the maximum output from the personnel available to you. We're still not doing that.
Lastly, I'm not a great Warnock fan but I wanted him in the team this week to capitalise on Ryders lack of height and support and the non selection was an error IMO. In the last quarter, their mids received silver service at the stoppages.
Too focussed on limiting their strengths instead of capitalising on ours was the biggest mistake.



Good post, as usual. Warnock is not named for Northern so must still be injured.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter.
.


I think we had 18 inside 50's to 6 in the first quarter.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter.
.


I think we had 18 inside 50's to 6 in the first quarter.



Yes, thats what I said.
We had the dominance around the stoppages, all the momentum and yet we played a defensive forward structure.
Hence 1 goal 4.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter.
.


I think we had 18 inside 50's to 6 in the first quarter.



Yes, thats what I said.
We had the dominance around the stoppages, all the momentum and yet we played a defensive forward structure.
Hence 1 goal 4.


No BV it was because we ran it and bombed it in willy nilly.

Our delivery in the second term was far more deliberate and we got the rewards.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2715
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter. As much as I hate saying it, Hird and Thompson have had the better of us in the box 2 out the past 3 games.
Our decision to use Betts, Armfield and Garlett to drag Baguley, Hibberd and Fletcher up the ground backfired badly.
They sagged off their opponents and had 21 possies between them in the first quarter.
The stupidity is we absolutely controlled the ball and had 18 inside 50s for the quarter. To walk away with one goal was a disgrace. We should have expected 4 goals minimum from that sort of dominance.
T\Adding to that, the coaches need to understand that if the opposition have a loose man in defence, taking numbers away increases their advantage.
3 against 2 is far more effective than 7 against 6 yet we allowed them the advantage by vacating the forward line. :screwy:

For those who talk about us failing to run out 100 minutes, nobody can. The game is to fast and too highly paced. The key is to capitalise on your opportunities when you have momentum and we failed to do that. Essendon* went into the game with a plan to shut down our switches of play and to leave a goalkeeper behind the ball. It took our coaches a quarter to address it and unfortunately the opportunities presented by our early dominance were gone.
To see the ball continually hit the deck without us having front and centre crumbers was doing my head in.

As I've said all along, we have the personnel to play finals footy but we're just going along at the moment. Our form is virtually where it was at the start of the season and we need to find the key accelerate our improvement.
Its not about cutting the guts out of the list at the moment. Its about getting the maximum output from the personnel available to you. We're still not doing that.
Lastly, I'm not a great Warnock fan but I wanted him in the team this week to capitalise on Ryders lack of height and support and the non selection was an error IMO. In the last quarter, their mids received silver service at the stoppages.
Too focussed on limiting their strengths instead of capitalising on ours was the biggest mistake.

Bollocks!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:23 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 9603
Location: Beijing
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter. As much as I hate saying it, Hird and Thompson have had the better of us in the box 2 out the past 3 games.
Our decision to use Betts, Armfield and Garlett to drag Baguley, Hibberd and Fletcher up the ground backfired badly.
They sagged off their opponents and had 21 possies between them in the first quarter.
The stupidity is we absolutely controlled the ball and had 18 inside 50s for the quarter. To walk away with one goal was a disgrace. We should have expected 4 goals minimum from that sort of dominance.
T\Adding to that, the coaches need to understand that if the opposition have a loose man in defence, taking numbers away increases their advantage.
3 against 2 is far more effective than 7 against 6 yet we allowed them the advantage by vacating the forward line. :screwy:

For those who talk about us failing to run out 100 minutes, nobody can. The game is to fast and too highly paced. The key is to capitalise on your opportunities when you have momentum and we failed to do that. Essendon* went into the game with a plan to shut down our switches of play and to leave a goalkeeper behind the ball. It took our coaches a quarter to address it and unfortunately the opportunities presented by our early dominance were gone.
To see the ball continually hit the deck without us having front and centre crumbers was doing my head in.

As I've said all along, we have the personnel to play finals footy but we're just going along at the moment. Our form is virtually where it was at the start of the season and we need to find the key accelerate our improvement.
Its not about cutting the guts out of the list at the moment. Its about getting the maximum output from the personnel available to you. We're still not doing that.
Lastly, I'm not a great Warnock fan but I wanted him in the team this week to capitalise on Ryders lack of height and support and the non selection was an error IMO. In the last quarter, their mids received silver service at the stoppages.
Too focussed on limiting their strengths instead of capitalising on ours was the biggest mistake.


Excellent post BV. Low player skill level is killing us when it matters. Re Warnock - has zero presence around the ground as he cannot take a contested mark. A real conundrum there.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Posts: 1824
cimm1979 wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
The recruiting does need addressing and hopefully the addition of Williams will make a difference.

I thought the picks of Temay, Graham and Menzel were good but I dont get the pick of Cachia. Handy player but does he add to or improve our list?

Someone like Colquhoun or Garlett would of been better. Rookies should be for talented kids with a spot for a Mature Aged ruckman. How many of these kids step up and become good players?

Duigan, Cachia, Curnow, Joseph can go. Add nothing. Big decisons on McCarthy, Watson, Mitchell, OKeefe, Davies, Collins, Dale & Ellard.

Personally I don't care if they all go.

Need to go after some talented young guns via trade if we can and hopefully stockpile some picks for the draft.


Tough on Cachia. Is proving he belongs and deserved his second chance.


You have to look at the posters history on Cachia .

He's been spruiking "wasted pick" for months. He's finding it hard to come to terms with the evidence.


Agreed.Based on the evidence Cachia and Curnow are well and truley in our best 22 this year.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:26 pm
Posts: 37
I think its time to trade some of our so called better players that still have some currency, ie Gibbs, Kreuzer -( I know everyone will scream but I don't rate him) etc .


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
carntheblues wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter. As much as I hate saying it, Hird and Thompson have had the better of us in the box 2 out the past 3 games.
Our decision to use Betts, Armfield and Garlett to drag Baguley, Hibberd and Fletcher up the ground backfired badly.
They sagged off their opponents and had 21 possies between them in the first quarter.
The stupidity is we absolutely controlled the ball and had 18 inside 50s for the quarter. To walk away with one goal was a disgrace. We should have expected 4 goals minimum from that sort of dominance.
T\Adding to that, the coaches need to understand that if the opposition have a loose man in defence, taking numbers away increases their advantage.
3 against 2 is far more effective than 7 against 6 yet we allowed them the advantage by vacating the forward line. :screwy:

For those who talk about us failing to run out 100 minutes, nobody can. The game is to fast and too highly paced. The key is to capitalise on your opportunities when you have momentum and we failed to do that. Essendon* went into the game with a plan to shut down our switches of play and to leave a goalkeeper behind the ball. It took our coaches a quarter to address it and unfortunately the opportunities presented by our early dominance were gone.
To see the ball continually hit the deck without us having front and centre crumbers was doing my head in.

As I've said all along, we have the personnel to play finals footy but we're just going along at the moment. Our form is virtually where it was at the start of the season and we need to find the key accelerate our improvement.
Its not about cutting the guts out of the list at the moment. Its about getting the maximum output from the personnel available to you. We're still not doing that.
Lastly, I'm not a great Warnock fan but I wanted him in the team this week to capitalise on Ryders lack of height and support and the non selection was an error IMO. In the last quarter, their mids received silver service at the stoppages.
Too focussed on limiting their strengths instead of capitalising on ours was the biggest mistake.

Bollocks!


Excellent rebuttal.
You should change your name to eloquent wordsmith. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 10:26 am
Posts: 934
Interesting reading - moving from measured and plausible to the totally over the top - sack them all nonsense, with a few in between those. My take for what it is worth is:

The turning point in the game was Lukas missing a sitter that would have iced the game. However, he wasn't our worst and isn't as bad as some seem to suggest. He still makes mistakes but is getting better and deserves his spot.

The decision to start Yarran as the sub was brain dead in my opinion. Yarran is a confidence player and starting him there was a show of no confidence and he performed accordingly. Don't ever do it again. We would have won if he started.

Eddie had a poor night and Jeffy, while better than Eddie, was below his best which hurt us.

Casboult was really good and will make it hard for Hammer to return. His best game for Carlton by a mile and we now need to back him in week to week and not drop him if he has one bad one. He actually holds his marks whereas Hammer spills them. When was the last time Hammer took 10 marks ? Try NEVER ! I have been banging on for years about extra time to be put into Hammer's marking and when he gets traded and someone else does it they will reap the rewards instead of us. Dumb player development !

Can't understand the criticism of Cachia & Curnow. They both did great jobs on outstanding players who were not outstanding last night because of the efforts of our boys.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter.
.


I think we had 18 inside 50's to 6 in the first quarter.



Yes, thats what I said.
We had the dominance around the stoppages, all the momentum and yet we played a defensive forward structure.
Hence 1 goal 4.


No BV it was because we ran it and bombed it in willy nilly.



Yes Cimm, thats because we had no "hit up" targets up forward as they were all up the ground dragging defenders away.
A serious question, what would you like the midfielders to do when they have the ball and are under immense pressure?
Theres nothing wrong with kicking long into the forward line if you have a half reasonable structure to capitalise on it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Location: Around the Corner
Good post BV.

Only two areas I disagree with.

Warnock can't play until he can contribute in other ways than hit outs. Kreuzer bashing seems to be fashionable today, but I am still convinced his combo with Levi is the best current combo.

I'm not sure how many of the 22 who played last night should be delisted/traded, but we have a mass of mid round draftees over the last three years who have never threatened to play regular senior football (or any senior football at all for that matter - I don't count the charity match at the end of last season). They all need to go at the end of this year, contracts permitting. They are the very definition of list cloggers.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:50 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Posts: 3073
Synbad wrote:
Essendon* are crap....
We have players that cant play a big game .. they cant stand up in big games.
They need to be culled...
They are a virus on the team....
You cant have guys in the side that cant do the big game things. Run harder.. kick.. tackle.. stand up in tackles

That was just weak!!!...

Get rid of the pathetic weak ones and it will turn around....!!!

BTW i loved Casboults game tonight.
He was the highlight for us.... except for a freaky first half by Waite.
Judd tried to life but his body couldnt give more.
Curnow was good ....
Tuohy needs to get more of the ball.
Simon White is a depth player...

and finally we get to Kane Lurkus ......Lurkus is ust sit!!!..... he is shit!!!... not because of the missed goal.... hes just shit!!!....
We ve had seagulls who could execute with skills... but ive never seen a seagull make a side who is so unskilled.
He doesnt stand up in tackles.. he cant tackle.. he cant win a contested ball... he goes under the ball in a marking contest cos its the easy way.....
To think we demoted Menzel for Lurkus...
OMG we have a guy who is deficient in playing pressure cooker footy in the side.. and hes a pick in the top dozen...!!!



The good thing is... the coach would start to get a good idea about who can play and who cant.



C'mon Synbad ... you know why we lost that game.

A completely inept coaching performance by the super duper coach. Out coached by the golden boy in every department.

Let me count the ways ... I have a list if you want. Talk about PATHETIC. We should never have lost this match ... His decisions after half time make my blood boil ... :hitcomputer: :hitcomputer: :mad: :mad:

Well I guess we always have the 10 year MM plan.

Another reason we lost was that Carrots didn't play ... :lol:

The sooner we get rid of MM the better.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 15582
Location: Upper Swan.
Blue Vain wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter.
.


I think we had 18 inside 50's to 6 in the first quarter.



Yes, thats what I said.
We had the dominance around the stoppages, all the momentum and yet we played a defensive forward structure.
Hence 1 goal 4.


No BV it was because we ran it and bombed it in willy nilly.



Yes Cimm, thats because we had no "hit up" targets up forward as they were all up the ground dragging defenders away.
A serious question, what would you like the midfielders to do when they have the ball and are under immense pressure?
Theres nothing wrong with kicking long into the forward line if you have a half reasonable structure to capitalise on it.


No it wasn't BV.

But I can see it's going to be that kind of week.

:grin:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:54 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Blue Vain wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Too defensive and inflexible in the first quarter.
.


I think we had 18 inside 50's to 6 in the first quarter.



Yes, thats what I said.
We had the dominance around the stoppages, all the momentum and yet we played a defensive forward structure.
Hence 1 goal 4.


No BV it was because we ran it and bombed it in willy nilly.





Yes Cimm, thats because we had no "hit up" targets up forward as they were all up the ground dragging defenders away.
A serious question, what would you like the midfielders to do when they have the ball and are under immense pressure?
Theres nothing wrong with kicking long into the forward line if you have a half reasonable structure to capitalise on it.



Perhaps we were getting the inside 50's because we had numbers up the ground. Essendon* doing to us what the Swans did to them the week before.

If you say is true or not BV but we still had our chances to win well but we were not composed enough to kick the goals nor were we composed enough to stop a few of theirs..........and one of our goals was called a point for some strange reason.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Smorgyland Village North Carlton
CFC twitter @CarltonFC: The @AFL has admitted the decision not to review Jeff Garlett's controversial disallowed goal in last night's match was an error. Shame they reviewed the point that cost us the game which Hendo would has rushed.

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