Plenty of 'going gets tough' sayings around. They are my faves.

IMO you are the one with your head in the sand. In my eyes the gutless approach of caving in as soon as the going gets tough is not going to instill a winning culture. The playing list at Carlton has been doing this for years. We need to stand up and show some pride. Stop blaming others. The results at seasons end will tell the story. If we don't get the results make the big changes for next year.
Right now there are games of football to be played.

If we smash it up now we are gutless and we will never get passed it. We will deserve all we get.

Who on earth is suggesting that?

Of course the odds improve as you go to the top of the draft list.

What I'm saying is that we have at least 15 players who at some point have shown that they could be awesome footballers.

Why aren't they playing like that week in week out when the top clubs can get their players to do so?

That's a coaching issue.

And we're failing.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Not a massive fan of Sticks as Prez, but he's not on his own. Does he stay on simply because he's concerned the alternative candidates motives are not in the clubs bests interests. He may not be that great, but what are the alternatives.?

Harold Mitchell is given as an example of a fantastic candidate, and that's probably the case, but it's also likely (given our history) that the replacement is a complete spud, possibly even corrupt.

Surely all the board positions, particularly the family appointments, are as much of concern.?

I'd be horrified if the next Prez was handpicked by the Pratt's or worse another member of the family with time on their hands. I mean how many people in the (legitimate) extended family want a seat at the table.?

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Well, it sounded like you were addressing my post and misrepresenting what I was getting at. I never said coaching wasn't an issue.

However, I think the post that mentioned the no. 1 draft picks was being ironic. If someone is going to bring up the issue of list management in retaliation, I'm going to take it at face value.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Board and sub-committee board meetings too. Giving direction to football departments. Blurring the lines of responsibility and management.

So, back to the opening post.

Is that Sticks or the Pratt's responsibility?

Yes he's the Prez, but replace him with who? Just because there are hundreds of qualified and well respected people, there are also a fair amount of boneheads who's ego's would be pumped to bursting point at the prospect of being the top banana. We've had a few ourselves and we are not the only club.

3 people on a board represents a block and I, without any understanding of our admin, believe that is safe to assume the Pratt vote carries a bit more weight than others. If Sticks goes are we any chance to get the best qualified or are we destined to only get the best the Pratt's want.?

You seem to know the set up pretty well, what do you think.

Do the Pratt's have the final say?

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Crickets

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Whilst it is a great idea to aspire to being a self funding club, I would not want to think of the Pratts as anything but Carltonians who belong wherever they aspire in this club, for this club.

CFC is not a hobby horse. It's an addiciton. For all of us. It is the legacy of many things to many people.

Richard Pratt played in the 50's and 60's. He is a Carltonian. His legacy lives. His kids are part of that legacy.
If I had their money and I have the same passion for the club, I too would want to give as much as I could to the club I love.

I welcome every cent and skill the Pratts have to give to our club.
Yep and they are welcome to representation on the board.
Ditto other benefactors.

Every club has them and every club needs them.
They belong.

As for a new President, I'd like to hear from Sticks what is happening to the baton change he mentioned a couple of years ago as the interim President.

Whatever happens with that, he too belongs where he feels the club needs him most, until there's someone better.
I reckon Sticks just wants to give to the club.
I'm not one to say where that is, but I'm just happy him being a legend of the club and a daily part of the club, ala Charlie Sutton.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

So wealthy benefactors are entitled to seats on the board.?

How many seats? Enough to ensure they run the club? Hold the power of veto over everything and muddy the waters daily business.

Some posters want the business run like like a business, but what type ? A family business or a public company or a partnership.?

If Sticks isn't the best man for the job then change him, but if the replacement has to pass a Pratt test (haha) then the supposedly flawed process that sees Sticks as Prez , will just be replaced by similarly flawed process.

Pratts don't own the club, they are not majority shareholders . What qualifications does Jeannie have to be VP. ?

When someone offers up a Pres selection process that's first priority isn't to find someone acceptable to a the family of a dead former President, I'll feel a little more comfortable.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

You seem to have included Kernahan in the Pratt camp? And Gleeson is to Kernahan as Robin is to Batman. So there's 4. I'd presume the Pratt vote carries some weight, but for what? What evidence have we seen that Ruffy Germinder is of value to the Carlton Football Club board? Is Jeanne just there because she's a woman or because the Pratt's family company are a sponsor at $1.6 million a year (same as Hyundai). What value does she bring? She sits on one sub-committee (Membership & Marketing) which shouldn't exist (it's operational and you should be paying very good people to do these roles - why should a sub-committee not versed in either have control over this?) When it comes time for her to legally stand for re-election, will they change the rules again? Her main claim to fame thus far is suggesting the club get Fevola back... god help us if she ever became President.

The fact is that when Dick Pratt came on as President they thought 'Everything's rosey now...aren't we great!'...but it was 15 years too late for Pratt to have a really profound influence. His usefulness at that level had passed and he was more interested in having a beer with the likes of Fev and Stevo and living vicariously through them than getting the boards' processes right. That's not opinion. That's well documented.

The board has changed the constitution, they've failed to give the members a vote. So are members just being asked to trust what the board is doing? Yes...but why? What membership-based entity operates this way? They've already shown their incompetence - so what purpose is their becoming a member? The alienation of the supporter base I find bizarre. Our only hope was that the board would have minimal influence on factors influencing football matters. While Mathieson pays off the debt and AFL revenue monies received get funneled into the football department the hope was the right steps were being taken to have a first-class system in place that would lead to a team that excelled in certain areas.

That hasn't happened. The board oversees those steps. Or do they interfere? Million dollar question. The answer is probably both. Because the blame is not just Brett Ratten's.

Fair suck of the sauce bottle bottle mate...it's Sunday FFS!

You had 12 minutes, you lazy bastard

So the issue for me is this.

Sticks has been associated with every administration since the 90's.
It's also fair to say that every administration prior to this one has been diabolical in that time.

I don't think it's a long bow to draw to at say that the Pratt/Sticks administration has been the pick of a the bunch. It's a sh1t bunch but things seem (at least to me here in Perth) on track , sorta.

If Sticks has to go that's fine but how do we ensure we don't end up with someone worse and how do we get rid of the spuds on the board. ?

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I hope Essendon* folds.

We're [REDACTED].

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Problem is Sticks wont go.. hes always gunna be casting his simpleton shadow around the club to be used by one faction or another....

You just hope a smart faction gets a hold of it one day

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Geelong have great executive and board level leadership. As a supporter you must be happy, because even if they make mistakes (losing Ablett for example), you know they have the right people in place to work through the problem. This amazing group of people at that club, are far more important that any individual selected as coach.

Most of what happens at board level I read on here and if what is reported is remotely true, then Ratts is the least of our issues as a football club.

I'm reminded of story where a there was a project running and it 12 months behind schedule and millons over budget. I was able to discuss with one of the executives invited to help rectify the project what his thoughts on the matter were. His immediate response was, 'obviously this is a failure of leadership' and proceeded to tell my his prior was getting that sorted first.

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'‘He had an enormous capacity to pump himself up and get the best out of himself when it mattered. He had a fire in his belly – a passion for the contest like few other players’' -- D Parkin in reference to the dominator

Well, this is part of my issue. We don't. There are two new board members coming in November replacing Mark Harrison, Ari Suss and Stephen Moulton who are stepping down in line with the sensible move of reducing the numbers on the board. Sticks has called it a 'succession plan'.

By the way fellas - on the off chance you're reading this, don't forget the changes to the VCGR registry that need to be made when directors step down.

http://www.vcgr.vic.gov.au/CA2570C30016 ... /V00095320

As much as I agree with this move and think Ryan Trainor and Craig Mathieson are worthy replacements, no one voted for them. So of the board the way it looks at years end - Kernahan, Clarke, Fried, Gleeson, Newton and Lee were voted onto the board. Pratt, Lo Guidice, Mathieson, Trainor, Germinder were not. Kernahan has been there since 1997, and I'm not sure what Adrian Gleeson has done since 2006. To be honest, they haven't faced much competition at elections (Italian Blue might disagree with that statement).

Without a vote, Carlton doesn't really have a 'membership' per se...they have differing levels of season ticket-holders.

So what we really want is not only a change of Prez and board members , we need the new Prez and board members to commit to restoring the voting rights to members.

How the @#$%&! do you get that trifecta?

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I hope Essendon* folds.

You don't. You hope if they copy anything they copy the Geelong model. But copying only gets you so far. You still need the right people to manage it, and in this instance - they'd struggle to manage the change. So you're left with division, power struggle, in-fighting. It's not unusual for Carlton. Historically, we've had more of this than we've had success, but in 2012, it's a very different proposition. If they can recognise that the processes aren't working, they need to leave the egos at the door and make some change. The board can stay - but they need proper leadership, need to believe it and need to drive the change. Together.

It'll be 1980 all over again, Sticks will go when Ratts goes.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world